Is it ever appropriate to tell someone...

[dinah77]

Not to go into nursing? If so, how? here's my dillemma...

I work in my school's tutor center- I see a LOT Of people who are barely making it through pre-reqs, have to re-take them as many times as is allowed, etc. I'm not making judgement's about their intelligence, 99% of the time it's a lack of commitment on their part, not willing to put foth the work, etc. All they seem to see is that this is a job that pays well and is stable, etc.

One girl wrote an essay for a pre-nursing class about why she wanted to be a nurse...she brought it in for profreading, and I heard my co-worker say to her "Umm, you didn't put anything in here about wanting to be an RN because you like to work with people, you only talked about the $$" :0!!

My usual "gut-check" for this is to ask myself "Would I want this person at the bedside of one of my loved ones?"

If the answer is "NO!" that's my criteria.

Beyond the fact that I am truly frightened about the thought of some of these people ever being RNs, there's also the fact that I go to a very expensive private University- it's heartbreaking to me to see so many people go through the stress and heartache of nursing school, only to end up tens of thuosands of $$ in debt with nothing to show for it when they finally flunk out for the last time.

So , any thoughts on this?

[ohgreat]

The example of your experiences with people in ministry is a whole other discussion which I actually have some strong biases towards (I founded a successful ministry for the homeless with my church a few years ago and was actively leading until I became disgusted with this type of culture, politics, and judgmental attitude of the church and decided to leave the church and ministry entirely). This really has nothing to do with nursing.

As for your considerations regarding your OP, there are people who make the call- Nursing instructors, Preceptors, The National Council Licensure Examination (NCLEX), Hospital management, etc. These are all trained professionals who are able to make justified decisions on who can be a nurse and who cannot.

The reason I take such an interest in this matter is because I don't believe in telling people who they should or shouldn't be, especially in the context of your work as a tutor or other staff member in the tutoring center. There are people I know who have been told they will never make it into nursing school with C's in some of their prerequisite classes who are now close to graduating at the top percentile of the class. I'm sure there are amazing nurses out there who have been told they wouldn't or shouldn't make it. And to think... if they had listened to naysayers and people who told them they shouldn't, the field would be missing out on some amazing people.

[rn/writer, RN]

In your position as a tutor it isn't appropriate to tell someone not to go into nursing.

It is, however, appropriate to do as you mentioned and explain to them that nursing school is going to be more difficult than what they are working on when they come to see you. If they're already floundering, they may want to re-think their options.

You can also conversationally ask what drew them to nursing. Find out if they've had any vocational counseling. Make the off-hand remark that private schooling is too expensive to go through if you're not sure about what you want and where you belong.

People have to come to their own conclusions, and some will hurt themselves because they don't read the signposts along the way. But gentle, respectful questions asked with genuine interest and a recognition of the other person's autonomy may offer a healthy challenge. This shouldn't deter anyone who is really set on becoming a nurse. But it might put someone who is less sure in a thinking mood.

Fortunately, when they are coming to you for pre-reqs, they still have a lot of options open.

Thank you for being concerned.

[kcochrane]

I have worked with nurses that are nice and are extemely dangerous. I have also worked with nurses that are nasty but competent that make the workplace environment for both patients and coworkers miserable. So even with the so called safeguards in place, there sure are a lot of "bad" nurses out there.

I think all schools need to have both academic and interview processes in place. In most cases if you can't achieve a c in the core prereqs, you are going to have problems with nursing school. And a good interview with someone with experience at the bedside could weed some of those unrealistic people out. Honestly many times nursing school itself does that...or the workplace might.

But again, nothing wrong with pointing out the facts that struggling with prereqs could make nursing school difficult and the reality of just what bedside nursing is.

[hiddencatRN, BSN, RN]

I'm a tutor at the school I took my prerequisites at, and I would never consider telling a student that they shouldn't go in to nursing. My job is to help them understand the material and provide advice on study skills. It's not my job to give career advice or guidance, other than sharing my personal experiences.

It's not your job to be the gatekeeper. Feel free to share the (sometimes ugly) truth, but I wouldn't consider it appropriate to go beyond that.

[whichone'spink, BSN, RN]

Nursing school itself is the gatekeeper. Many will drop out if they don't like handing precious bodily fluids.

[~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN]

No I don't think it's appropriate to tell someone not to go into nursing. As far as barely getting through pre reqs. Well I will raise my hand on that one, I retook a few of my science classes, I got 4.0's on the psych and sociology classes, but I struggled bad in the science classes and barely passed the college algebra classes. Guess what, just finished my first semester of nursing school, (well next week) and I have done great with LITTLE effort. Got an A in Dosage Calculations class, a B in my 8 credit Fundamentals class and missed a B in pharm by 2 points ( a B in my program is 85%), I did bad on 3 of my tests but it had nothing to do with the material it had to do with stuff going on at home that I let get the best of me. For the first time in my life I was having physical reactions to stress like throwing up and uncontrollable shaking. I let it throw off my game and on 2 of my tests I changed many answers to the wrong ones.

Anyway it didn't have anything to do with me not being smart enough, I got a handle on it and ended up getting 100% on my final and I only studied a couple hours the night before for it.

So someone can struggle through pre reqs and do well in nursing school. I have seen many students with a 4.0 on pre reqs barely passing now. Nursing school is a whole new way of thinking and test taking. For someone of us it's a blessing, tests that we finally are good at. For others not so much.

Although I am a very caring and compassionate person, nursing was not my first choice and it is an out for me. It's a way that I can be financially independent and be able to support myself and my kids on my own if I need to. As much as I am a caring and compassionate person I would not do it for free. I would do an internship to gain experience for free but wouldn't do this as a career for little to no money.

Anyway, my point in my post is, you can't say how anyone will do or what kind of nurse they will be based on your own pre judgments.

I have never understood why some people are so concerned with others grades. A student that took the class twice probably now knows more then the person that did it once because hopefully ti all came to gether and they picked up on a lot more. I know that happened for me. Their are times kids in class are like how the heck do you remember this stuff and I was like, I should I took the class twice.

[~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN]

"The moment you start telling students that they shouldn't go into nursing, you are making judgment calls based on your own biased opinions of both the student and the entire nursing field. And to be frank, it's not your call."

Nor do I want it to be my call, I don't really wan't that responsibility- the intent of my OP was to get feedback on the idea as a whole- should someone be making that call? I do know of people in other fields (specifically ministry) who were told straight up by faculty they did not have the enough of a "pastoral attitude" to be ministers.

Why is thisi such a controversial issue with nursing?

It's not, Nursing school is not easy to get into, most schools have many hoops and requirements that have to be met before acceptance. It's not like someone can say, oh I want to be a nurse and just go register for the classes. That process right their works well at weeding a lot of people out. Not all but many.

[Adams_Mama_07]

the answer to your question is a resounding "no" it is never appropriate to stick your nose into someone else's business regarding their academic pursuits. as a former tutor myself (level iii certified--highest in nc, and tutored for 2.5 years at my university) who tutored biology for many nursing students (when i wasn't one) i never, ever interjected my personal opinions on my tutees. your job is to faciliate their learning and comprehension of the given material, your job ends there. you are not an academic counselor, you are not their instructor, you are their peer. now, if the student point blank asks your opinion of their likely success in nursing school that is a different story altogether, but you could be shaping yourself into getting relieved of your tutoring duties if you start telling students they aren't cut out for their major.

a good nurse is a nurse who is good at nursing. you can support, couch others, take good care of them, and you do not neccessarily have to be a caring until your eyes pop out kind of person. i'm not going to like every patient i have, doesn't mean i am not going to be a good nurse for them.

and there is a big difference between nursing and the pastoral field. someone who is minister of god's word is always a minister. a pastor couches people on how to live their lives (moral standards, self-sacrificing, avoidance of sin, giving, loving others, etc), not living to those standards would make him a hippocrate. nurses are not instructing patients on how to be kind, caring, loving, sin-free souls but how to take care of themselves and lead healthy lives. an example of hippocrate in nursing would be an obese nurse instructing patients on the importance of eating well.

[~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN]

the answer to your question is a resounding "no" it is never appropriate to stick your nose into someone else's business regarding their academic pursuits. as a former tutor myself (level iii certified--highest in nc, and tutored for 2.5 years at my university) who tutored biology for many nursing students (when i wasn't one) i never, ever interjected my personal opinions on my tutees. your job is to faciliate their learning and comprehension of the given material, your job ends there. you are not an academic counselor, you are not their instructor, you are their peer. now, if the student point blank asks your opinion of their likely success in nursing school that is a different story altogether, but you could be shaping yourself into getting relieved of your tutoring duties if you start telling students they aren't cut out for their major.

a good nurse is a nurse who is good at nursing. you can support, couch others, take good care of them, and you do not neccessarily have to be a caring until your eyes pop out kind of person. i'm not going to like every patient i have, doesn't mean i am not going to be a good nurse for them.

and there is a big difference between nursing and the pastoral field. someone who is minister of god's word is always a minister. a pastor couches people on how to live their lives (moral standards, self-sacrificing, avoidance of sin, giving, loving others, etc), not living to those standards would make him a hippocrate. nurses are not instructing patients on how to be kind, caring, loving, sin-free souls but how to take care of themselves and lead healthy lives. an example of hippocrate in nursing would be an obese nurse instructing patients on the importance of eating well.

so you just assume any nurse that is obese doesn't know the importance of eating well or is obese from not eating well?

although majority of obesity might come from unhealthy eating, not all of it does. i would say something hypocritical would be a nurse telling the patient the importance of not smoking after coming back from their smoke break smelling like an ash tray. even then i am sure the nurse is fully aware of the negative impact smoking has.

[Alternator81]

I worked as a biology tutor for a local college for many years. I had students come semester after semester, many retaking the same prerequisites many times. There were many times that I posed that question to a student: do you think that maybe nursing isn't for you?

A large part of the problem is that the community college will accept and place on their waiting list anyone that has a B average in their biology courses. The college has this huge list going and fails out like 70% in the first semester of their program. Like less than 10% graduate.

I always felt like I was doing them a favor by telling them to consider other options. I think it's terrible that these schools let's people blow all this time and money retaking prerequisites over and over. I tutored people taking A&P for the 3rd or 4th time--It's a money-business if you ask me. I couldn't imagine after all the effort put into it retaking classes having to tell your family that you failed out of nursing school.

: Unfortunately, the fact is that some people are not cut out for it. Just like I may not be cut out to be a Rhodes Scholar or a professional athlete-- life goes on.

[Alternator81]

an example of hippocrate in nursing would be an obese nurse instructing patients on the importance of eating well.

um, this rant is ridicules. so a nurse that is over weight should just omit patient education on diet because otherwise she would be a hypocrite ?? god, hope the patient ins't diabetic.

[jjnRN]

I have to say that it is up to the person for the most part to find out for themselves whether they are cut out to be a nurse. Of course, some people think they are great with people and everything else and they may need an eye opener. But in the many years that I have been around I have worked with people that myself or other coworkers thought would never amount to much but became some of the best workers we had in any job I have held.

Yes nursing is people oriented but just because someone says they want to do it for the money or they are an angel of mercy DOES NOT determine the kind of care they would provide. Some of the people I know that seem to be the most caring are the last ones I would let take care of my dogs much less my family.

Just my