Not to go into nursing? If so, how? here's my dillemma...
I work in my school's tutor center- I see a LOT Of people who are barely making it through pre-reqs, have to re-take them as many times as is allowed, etc. I'm not making judgement's about their intelligence, 99% of the time it's a lack of commitment on their part, not willing to put foth the work, etc. All they seem to see is that this is a job that pays well and is stable, etc.
One girl wrote an essay for a pre-nursing class about why she wanted to be a nurse...she brought it in for profreading, and I heard my co-worker say to her "Umm, you didn't put anything in here about wanting to be an RN because you like to work with people, you only talked about the $$" :0!!
My usual "gut-check" for this is to ask myself "Would I want this person at the bedside of one of my loved ones?"
If the answer is "NO!" that's my criteria.
Beyond the fact that I am truly frightened about the thought of some of these people ever being RNs, there's also the fact that I go to a very expensive private University- it's heartbreaking to me to see so many people go through the stress and heartache of nursing school, only to end up tens of thuosands of $$ in debt with nothing to show for it when they finally flunk out for the last time.
Perhaps just letting them know that once the pre-req's are done doesn't mean that you just got through the hardest part & the rest is a breeze. Nursing school isn't easy...you really have to want it...and back that up with studying. (I recently found out that one nursing school had over 50% of their students fail Med-Surg I....most students were having difficulty taking nursing school seriously).
Nursing is my second degree....my first one was in Recreation, Parks & Tourism Administration....and during junior & senior year, I was always questioning whether or not I was doing the right degree for me. But, I didn't want to be seen as a "failure" for changing degrees & not completing what I had started. 3 years after graduation & I was headed to nursing school, loving it and have never looked back. One thing though is that I think you really have to enjoy what you do (no matter what your vocation/occupation), so that you keep wanting to go back. Nursing (and the healthcare field in general) is especially taxing on its members...think about it - where else do you deal with the sickest of sick people, dysfunctional families that need to be included in patient care (for pediatric patients), incredible demands (emotional & physical), just to name a few (I am sure you can think of more...).
How often do you go home wondering about how your kiddo/patient/etc is doing...because that last 12 hours you spent with them was crazy busy b/c the pt was going bad on you. (Not saying that you take your work home with you, I just mean that you are human and you are hoping for the best for your person). It's not easy, but we do it b/c we love it. :-)
I would hope and pray that the instructors with all their years of experience would weed those individuals out early in the program.
There are so many different ways to go in nursing. Maybe pharmaceutical sales is the most appropriate for this individual... no patient care but the knowledge to make a profitable sale? Smile, set up the coffee and doughnuts in the break room.
I had a peer from the burn unit go into dressing sales for Johnson and Johnson and now she travels the world and makes an incredible sum of money... Always calling me from her hotel room from what ever country she is in, telling me what she is doing. A wonderful nurse who just got burned out on caring for the horrible burn injuries we dealt with on a regular basis.
I think it's fine to share your experience with nursing school as a student, but only if you are asked. Since you are a tutor, and don't work for the nursing dept, I think it's obnoxious to act as the gatekeeper, and presumptuous to assume you can determine if someone has what it takes. The world is full of college drop outs, it's their journey to walk, debt and all.
OTOH, if you were a member of the nursing faculty or advising staff, this would be a different issue.
I don't think there's anything wrong with being realistic with someone. If a person is pulling straight C's or low B's in their very tough pre-nursing classes - even though they're struggling and trying REALLY hard - I think you'd be doing them a favor by telling them to reconsider.
Of course, it's all in your delivery - that's very important. There's a big difference between insulting someone's academic skills or making a personal judgment against them ("you're just in it for the money! Idiot!"), and giving them a dose of reality. Be kind about it, not judgmental or patronizing.
Nursing is not for everyone, and that's OK. Being an attorney isn't for everyone either, and that's OK, too. I believe that everyone has special talents and skills that, when utilized properly, can help them really succeed in a career and life. Sometimes people just need some helpful suggestions to give them a push in the right direction. It would be awful to have this person go through nursing school just barely scraping by, barely passing the NCLEX, and then later get their license taken away for irresponsible behaviors. It would be equally as awful to put so many years and so much money into nursing school, only to drop out because it's too tough. Why make someone "learn the hard way" if you can offer some helpful advice, and prevent all those hardships? Plus, the person who gets accepted and then drops out is taking a seat that someone else (who could have succeeded) would have taken.
Now that I have finished my first term of nursing school I would have to answer with YES!!! If you know someone who is struggling just to get the pre-req's done and you don't think they will be a good Nurse...I think it is 100% appropriate to tell them in the nicest way possible that they should re-consider.
First....there are a ton of people trying to get into nursing school so everyone is focusing on points! But there is more to nursing than class points!!! You have to be compassionate and have common sense and a good bed side manner or you won't make it.
I was an alternate and was completely devastated when I didn't get initially. But I did get in after someone dropped out and it has been the hardest and most rewarding time of my life! I study everyday, have no social life and barely sleep!
Several "A" students barely passed the class!! I'm sure there are a few who didn't pass...and at least one that I can think of who should NOT be in the nursing program. It actually made me angry that this one person was in the program when I knew others that would make excellent Nurses that didn't get in.
So my vote is a YES....be honest with someone if it is your place to tell them they aren't right for nursing.
A very dear friend of mine just dropped out of medical school with the EXACT same amount of debt he would have had if he'd finished the entire program. I just feel that in retrospect it was SO obvious that he wasn't cut out to be a doctor (and his grades, test scores, etc., had nothing to do with it; they were great.) If only he'd really sat down with someone who knew the field and had a long, honest talk, maybe this fiasco would never have happened. Sometimes I think I should have just asked him the really hard questions, even if it made him furious with me ("Do you honestly want to work with patients? Do you really think you're going to be able to handle the hours? What about the pressure? have you thought about x,y,z...?")
So, yes. I think that maybe asking people "So, why do you want to be a nurse?" or "Why is this important to you?" could be a good way to go about it without being inappropriate. Grades and test scores are not the real issue and should not be focused on. Motivation, dedication and a desire to work with people have got to be there and can't be manufactured. Personally, I would give a lot if only there had been someone who had asked these types of questions and made me think about what I really wanted to do at the turning points of my life.
I don't know if "appropriate" is the right word.... but I've done it. Sort of...
Here is the scenario:
I was staff in L&D and had a nursing student 3 weeks in a row who repeatedly was unprepared, who couldn't follow basic directions, who was completely uncomfortable at the bedside with every patient, who interacted poorly with staff and was petrified of physician interactions... and it was his third clinical semester!
Sitting down with his instructor, in private, I pointed out his weaknesses and multiple examples of his unsafe nursing judgments and practices. I suggested that bedside/clinical nursing would not be a good career choice for him in my opinion. I suggested that IF he wanted to continue and complete his nursing degree that he should look for non-bedside applications that would better suit his personality and styles, such as chart reviews, or statistical reviews, etc.
His instructor was relieved to have someone talk to him, as she saw the same things but didn't want to seem unsupportive as a clinical instructor.
I do NOT know what he finally chose to do. I hope he finds his niche in life... but away from the bedside!
Are there jobs in nursing that would be OK to recommend to folks who do OK with the "book learning" but are inept at the bedside??
I would say not to worry. These kind of people will wash out of nursing school once they either find out how much work it takes or that dealing with sick people isn't for them. I saw it happen in my program.
Specializes in acute rehab, med surg, LTC, peds, home c.
And I do find the question "Do you like people?" Perfectly reasonable and applicable to nursing- why don't you?
I agree with you on this point, however, I would not tell her to quit for a different reason. I started an LPN program when I was 21 and very immature and stupid. My one instructor never cared for my attitude and quite frankly, I don't blame her, I was a jerk, plain and simple. But, I was smart enough to know what I didn't know and careful enough not to hurt anyone. I always had compassion and I actually had a pretty nice bedside manner with my patients even if I was not super-nurse at that time. Now it is almost 17 years later and I do consider myself an excellent nurse. I evolved into an excellent nurse, I was not created that way in NS.
I think life is a learning experience and you should just let her find her way. Just think of how you were at her age. Be patient, even though it drives you crazy sometimes. There may be alot more to her than meets your eye.
I think I would consider why the person is struggling first. There is a big difference between having problems because you have no grounding in science or haven't taken math since the early nineties, and having trouble because you genuinely can't comprehend the material.
"The moment you start telling students that they shouldn't go into nursing, you are making judgment calls based on your own biased opinions of both the student and the entire nursing field. And to be frank, it's not your call."
Nor do I want it to be my call, I don't really wan't that responsibility- the intent of my OP was to get feedback on the idea as a whole- should someone be making that call? I do know of people in other fields (specifically ministry) who were told straight up by faculty they did not have the enough of a "pastoral attitude" to be ministers.
Why is thisi such a controversial issue with nursing?
Because nursing isn't a ministry. Ministry is a completely different kettle of fish. Each denomination (heck in some parts of the world each church) gets to decide who is suited and/or called to the ministry. Often decided on with much prayer.
Nursing doesn't work that way. While many feel they are "called" to nursing and may even have that "calling" tied up with their faith, Nursing is not a faith-driven profession. The NCLEX has no "faith or calling" section to it.
Someone is making the call, nursing instructors. They have a duel responsibility, the first is obvious...to teach folks what they need to be the best nurse they can be. The second though is to ensure that only those who are safe and competent complete the program.
I feel that telling someone while they are still completing their pre-reqs that they need to find another profession (by someone who isn't a nurse themselves no less) seems to be pre-mature. You have no way of knowing how that person can grow and develop with the right support.
I just feel that in retrospect it was SO obvious that he wasn't cut out to be a doctor (and his grades, test scores, etc., had nothing to do with it; they were great.) If only he'd really sat down with someone who knew the field and had a long, honest talk, maybe this fiasco would never have happened. Sometimes I think I should have just asked him the really hard questions, even if it made him furious with me ("Do you honestly want to work with patients? Do you really think you're going to be able to handle the hours? What about the pressure? have you thought about x,y,z...?")
ChicagoPeds
36 Posts
Perhaps just letting them know that once the pre-req's are done doesn't mean that you just got through the hardest part & the rest is a breeze. Nursing school isn't easy...you really have to want it...and back that up with studying. (I recently found out that one nursing school had over 50% of their students fail Med-Surg I....most students were having difficulty taking nursing school seriously).
Nursing is my second degree....my first one was in Recreation, Parks & Tourism Administration....and during junior & senior year, I was always questioning whether or not I was doing the right degree for me. But, I didn't want to be seen as a "failure" for changing degrees & not completing what I had started. 3 years after graduation & I was headed to nursing school, loving it and have never looked back. One thing though is that I think you really have to enjoy what you do (no matter what your vocation/occupation), so that you keep wanting to go back. Nursing (and the healthcare field in general) is especially taxing on its members...think about it - where else do you deal with the sickest of sick people, dysfunctional families that need to be included in patient care (for pediatric patients), incredible demands (emotional & physical), just to name a few (I am sure you can think of more...).
How often do you go home wondering about how your kiddo/patient/etc is doing...because that last 12 hours you spent with them was crazy busy b/c the pt was going bad on you. (Not saying that you take your work home with you, I just mean that you are human and you are hoping for the best for your person). It's not easy, but we do it b/c we love it. :-)