Is my boss committing fraud?

[wabisabi]

My RN Manager is taking an exam this weekend for a national certification in my practice area. The certifying organization decided one year ago, and has prominently posted on its website and in its pertinent papers, through a very clear and unambiguous position statement, that managers who do not meet the direct care requirement are not eligible to write this exam. My manager submitted an application with corroborating signatures from other certified RNs (probably HER bosses) that she met this requirement. She does not. I have been torn between the desire to ask her privately if she is aware of her ineligibility or to request that the certifying organization make a determination themselves. I'll probably do nothing. But I sure hope she flunks. Ideas anyone?

[HonestRN]

One other thing, we as nurses may not put a lot of stock into all those initials following our names but our patients and the public do. I would like to think that we would not intentionally mislead the public about our qualifications or our honesty.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

Drug dealing is an ILLEGAL activity for anyone and of course the BON should and would be interested in that choice of personal behavior especially in a position where one has access to controlled substances. I find any lying or cheating by any professional medical personnel for advancement and/or recognition to be offensive and degrading to the nursing profession.

As other posters have mentioned none of us really know if the manager has the required experience or not however if she does not and someone knows this for a fact then I see no reason why this information should not come out.

On the morality scale, I put sleeping with another mans wife and deliberately having a baby to destroy them both up there with drug dealing, but that's just me. Natrually the former is none of the BON's business. My point is probably lost and moot by now.

We agree on most points and I respect that you would be the one to expose the lies, just as I hope you'd not get all self-righteous on me if I sit it out. :)

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

My NM did exactly the same thing. She has never, ever, ever done a single bedside thing in my presence and yet she sat for and passed the exam. It irks me...I have the same certfication. Every email I get from her with that credential attached to her name makes me cringe.

I didn't raise a stink, but have secretly hoped that she gets audited and the credential taken away. I followed the rules and waited until eligible to take the exam. Several of us (staff nurses) have discussed this, so everyone knows she scammed. What kind of example is that???

NM's who think they're getting away with this need to know that they aren't held in higher esteem by skirting the requirements, rather the opposite...they're looked at as frauds.

May

My manager has been a manager for a long time, but she has many years of bedside nursing under her belt and could pass the med-surg certification without studying. She has managed a med-surg unit for a long time, is capable of understanding the care patients are getting under her staff, why would I resent if she wanted to become a certified med-surg nurse. Are we that exclusive that we only allow those who actually touch patients certification?

I guess we are if that's what the qualifications are, but don't knock your manager's prior experience and ability to pass the exam just becuase in your presence she's never touched a patient.

If all else fails (no pun intended) she'll probably flunk the test anyway, so I wouldn't sweat it. There's a lot of truth to the saying What goes around, comes around.

Don't be so sure. Many managers have many years experience under their belt prior to becoming managers and can probably pass these exams more readily than some of their staff.

What if I decided to become a manager of a med-surg unit, that means after a few years of management I no longer am able to keep my certification?

Edited to add what I found on the website on the certification I hold: Applicants for certification renewal who choose this option must complete 1,000 hours of practice during the five-year certification period. Nursing practice includes nursing administration, education, client care, and research related to the area of specialty certification.

http://www.nursecredentialing.org/cert/recert/recertreqs.html

Obviously other credentialing agencies are different which is why I'm probably a bit perplexed by this whole thread.

That's all.

[HonestRN]

On the morality scale, I put sleeping with another mans wife and deliberately having a baby to destroy them both up there with drug dealing, but that's just me. Natrually the former is none of the BON's business. My point is probably lost and moot by now.

We agree on most points and I respect that you would be the one to expose the lies, just as I hope you'd not get all self-righteous on me if I sit it out. :)

I do agree that on the morality scale they are both right up there however I differentiate between personal and professional ethics and morals. For the record, I probably would not expose the lies as I adhere to the "live and let live" philosophy as long as no one gets hurt.

[caliotter3]

There are so many serious ethical issues that affect the care and well being of patients that deserve attention and action, more than whether a supervisor is getting their ego stroked with a title they may or may not deserve. If none of these situations are present, perhaps the OP can better place their efforts to improving patient care where they work. At least the patients would benefit.

[IndySkies]

I had an Education nurse once, that would write up Elaborate titles for her "education seminars" and in-services she would teach. She would then submit them, plus "forged" certificates testifeing that she met in-patient hands-on care so she would not have to re-take the re-certification exam for the high-level skilled certification she had that was very sought-after and valued at the hospital where we worked.

Eventually she was found out...I am not sure of all the repercussions she suffered, but I do know it ruined her chances of any further advancement at that facility.

[I love my cat!]

My manager submitted an application with corroborating signatures from other certified RNs (probably HER bosses) that she met this requirement. She does not.

Personally, if anyone should be accused of fraud it would be the individuals that signed off on this Nurse's paperwork. Just because she asked for signatures, doesn't mean she should get them.

But, say you approached this woman and told her "You're not qualified" I guarantee she would tell you that two other Nurses believe she is.

Then you are up against THREE people.....and there is power in numbers.

As much as I am sure this is bothering you...and for good reasons...I would drop it. Put your energy into YOU! You deserve it much more than she does.

[Becca608]

I personally would not think that this is any of my business UNLESS patient care was going to be somehow compromised. Would it make continue to esteem her? No. Would it make me angry if I had worked my tail off for the same credential? Yes. But ultimately, if it doesn't hurt my clients, I need to keep my nose out of it.

Now if she had asked me to sign off on it, that would be a different story.

[MayisontheWay]

Because she has not performed bedside care in your presence, you are certain that she lacks the qualifications?

Again, I don't understand how it is that some posters are so certain of their managers' qualifications.

I am not defending anyone who falsifies credentials for any purpose. Just wondering how it is that staff members who spend little time with their managers are so well-versed in their experience, education, and qualifications.

Perhaps if so many unqualified managers are passing certification exams, the exams themselves ought to be called into question.

Because if she isn't doing it WITH us, who is she doing it with? She sure doesn't lift a finger to help when we get slammed with patients.

[SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN]

As a manager she probably has the opportunity to be hands-on. Personally, I'd trust any of my nurse managers to provide care. They're managers because they've had a bazillion years of experience. And I'd want the credentials.

[MayisontheWay]

I guess we are if that's what the qualifications are, but don't knock your manager's prior experience and ability to pass the exam just becuase in your presence she's never touched a patient.

I didn't make the rules...the rules are clear. X number of hours at the bedside during the previous year. She simply doesn't do it, hasn't done it since I've been there and has never been seen doing patient care by ANY nurse I've worked with. How do you argue with that?

[Jolie, BSN]

What do you know of her experience prior to your relationship with her as your manager?

What do you know of her volunteer experience? I am currently a volunteer nurse in our parish ministry, racking up sufficient hours to meet my practice requirement.

What do you know of any other employment she may have? I once worked directly under a nurse manager who held a second job unbeknownst to us until she went out on medical LOA and asked for help to cover her hours at her other place of employment. While she was probably the exception, not the norm, it can and does happen.

It is not likely that you are aware of all of her professional education, experience or qualifications.