Is my boss committing fraud?

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My RN Manager is taking an exam this weekend for a national certification in my practice area. The certifying organization decided one year ago, and has prominently posted on its website and in its pertinent papers, through a very clear and unambiguous position statement, that managers who do not meet the direct care requirement are not eligible to write this exam. My manager submitted an application with corroborating signatures from other certified RNs (probably HER bosses) that she met this requirement. She does not. I have been torn between the desire to ask her privately if she is aware of her ineligibility or to request that the certifying organization make a determination themselves. I'll probably do nothing. But I sure hope she flunks. Ideas anyone?

this is a very interesting subject. the live and let live group is definately going to butt heads with the pro-active "keep everyone honest" group.

moral relevance - ceteris paribus. when did it become so easy to excuse the misgivings of others as they tread upon us? when the world wasn't so crowded we might of permitted the luxury to excuse, but now... ?

thank you for the catalyst gonzo!

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Specializes in Med-Surg.
moral relevance - ceteris paribus. when did it become so easy to excuse the misgivings of others as they tread upon us? when the world wasn't so crowded we might of permitted the luxury to excuse, but now... ?

thank you for the catalyst gonzo!

i wasn't necessarily "excusing the behavior", but perhaps i was by advocating minding one's own business.

but i also have to look at how personally i am tread upon. granted she is degrading those with this certification by qualifying when she probably doesn't qualify (but i'm not sure of her history....perhaps she worked the floor for 20 years prior to becoming a manager, i don't know), and it doesn't really affect me, my life or my patients and i have to choose my battles when getting on my moral high horse.

recently a coworker had a baby by a married man and proceeded to be very vindictive making life miserable for the man's wife. i'm morally appalled that such a person is caring for patients beside me. i hold a high standard for nurses and she doesn't meet it by her lying and cheating. again, i have to mind my own business, but this doesn't mean i'm excusing her behavior.

some things are so wrong that i do have to say something and face the consequences. after all, i have to sleep with myself at night as well.

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There are several certification exams that I know of in which you can meet the requirements because you MANAGE the direct care staff. When you are a manager, you are supposed to be involved in knowing what is the correct treatments, etc. and directing the care that is given via the staff. That doesn't mean that every manager really does have the knowledge, just that they SHOULD if they are in charge of staff that does, therefore they meet the requirements.

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Specializes in Nursing Professional Development.

I know lots of people -- and I mean lots -- who maintain their ceritifications in specialties that they left years ago. That's a slightly different issue, but it is a similar one.

I think the lack of "policing and enforcement" is one of the weaknesses of the whole certification system -- one of the many weaknesses of the system. Those weaknesses diminish the validity of the certification and they are a big part of why I have never bothered to become certified.

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Specializes in Maternal - Child Health.

How can you be so certain of another person's qualifications?

If you are 100% sure that she is unqualified, and you choose to address it, please do so in private, in a non-confrontational manner, just as you would expect your manager to approach you if she had a problem with your performance.

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Specializes in cardiac, ortho, med surg, oncology.

Tweety what one does is their personal, private life is altogether different than what one does in their professional life. I can much easier tolerate someone who makes poor decisions/bad judgments in their personal life than one who does in their professional one. Especially a profession known for honesty.

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Specializes in Med-Surg.
Tweety what one does is their personal, private life is altogether different than what one does in their professional life. I can much easier tolerate someone who makes poor decisions/bad judgments in their personal life than one who does in their professional one. Especially a profession known for honesty.

I agree we're talking two different things here. I also agree that I'm more tolerant and ignore what I hear about someone's personal life, than what they do while they are on the job.

Again, I'm not condoning lying to get a certification that I personally worked hard to get the old fashioned honest way.

Sometimes a personal life choice is no ones business (for example the lying cheating coworker having an a married mans baby and then harrassing his wife is none of my business professionally), but sometimes in the case of the drug dealing nurse, the BON is very interested in their personal life. There's a reason we're fingerprinted and have background checks when we get our license.

My point was we still have to choose our battles and what we find offensive enough and degrading enough to our profession and personal patient care to intervene in and what we tolerate.

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Specializes in Med/Surg.

She may be committing fraud but it will be on her conscious not yours. I wouldn't risk your job just to keep her on the up and up, try to just let it go, for your sake.

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Specializes in Utilization Management.

So. I guess you don't much care for your boss. ;)

Not saying that you should look the other way, but usually liars and cheats dig their own graves. No reason for you to make a big stink, jeopardize your job, and make your boss (and her higher-ups) look bad when there is the chance that your boss could be on the up-and-up.

If all else fails (no pun intended) she'll probably flunk the test anyway, so I wouldn't sweat it. There's a lot of truth to the saying, What goes around, comes around.

Now if the boss actually came to me and asked me to vouch that she'd done all those clinical hours, I'd have to confront her, but as it is, I'm with Tweety and this is really an issue that's out of bounds for you.

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Specializes in ICU-CVICU.

My NM did exactly the same thing. She has never, ever, ever done a single bedside thing in my presence and yet she sat for and passed the exam. It irks me...I have the same certfication. Every email I get from her with that credential attached to her name makes me cringe.

I didn't raise a stink, but have secretly hoped that she gets audited and the credential taken away. I followed the rules and waited until eligible to take the exam. Several of us (staff nurses) have discussed this, so everyone knows she scammed. What kind of example is that???

NM's who think they're getting away with this need to know that they aren't held in higher esteem by skirting the requirements, rather the opposite...they're looked at as frauds.

May

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Specializes in Maternal - Child Health.
My NM did exactly the same thing. She has never, ever, ever done a single bedside thing in my presence and yet she sat for and passed the exam.

Because she has not performed bedside care in your presence, you are certain that she lacks the qualifications?

Again, I don't understand how it is that some posters are so certain of their managers' qualifications.

I am not defending anyone who falsifies credentials for any purpose. Just wondering how it is that staff members who spend little time with their managers are so well-versed in their experience, education, and qualifications.

Perhaps if so many unqualified managers are passing certification exams, the exams themselves ought to be called into question.

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Specializes in cardiac, ortho, med surg, oncology.

Sometimes a personal life choice is no ones business (for example the lying cheating coworker having an a married mans baby and then harrassing his wife is none of my business professionally), but sometimes in the case of the drug dealing nurse, the BON is very interested in their personal life. There's a reason we're fingerprinted and have background checks when we get our license.

My point was we still have to choose our battles and what we find offensive enough and degrading enough to our profession and personal patient care to intervene in and what we tolerate.

Drug dealing is an ILLEGAL activity for anyone and of course the BON should and would be interested in that choice of personal behavior especially in a position where one has access to controlled substances. I find any lying or cheating by any professional medical personnel for advancement and/or recognition to be offensive and degrading to the nursing profession.

As other posters have mentioned none of us really know if the manager has the required experience or not however if she does not and someone knows this for a fact then I see no reason why this information should not come out.

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