Is my boss committing fraud?

[wabisabi]

My RN Manager is taking an exam this weekend for a national certification in my practice area. The certifying organization decided one year ago, and has prominently posted on its website and in its pertinent papers, through a very clear and unambiguous position statement, that managers who do not meet the direct care requirement are not eligible to write this exam. My manager submitted an application with corroborating signatures from other certified RNs (probably HER bosses) that she met this requirement. She does not. I have been torn between the desire to ask her privately if she is aware of her ineligibility or to request that the certifying organization make a determination themselves. I'll probably do nothing. But I sure hope she flunks. Ideas anyone?

[MayisontheWay]

What do you know of her experience prior to your relationship with her as your manager?

What do you know of her volunteer experience? I am currently a volunteer nurse in our parish ministry, racking up sufficient hours to meet my practice requirement.

What do you know of any other employment she may have? I once worked directly under a nurse manager who held a second job unbeknownst to us until she went out on medical LOA and asked for help to cover her hours at her other place of employment. While she was probably the exception, not the norm, it can and does happen.

It is not likely that you are aware of all of her professional education, experience or qualifications.

Sorry. We know what we see. If, occasionally, she would raise a finger to help AT THE BEDSIDE we could feel better about her defrauding the AACN for a credential.

[skincarespecialist]

I still think you should not worry about the nurse that may/may not presenting fraud. You are waisting too much energy on something that makes you sound a bit more jealous than actually concerned if she is comitting fraud. Look, many times I have nurses reporting another person that just may be doing better than another "nurse". Fraud is a big word. I have met many jealous nurses that report others to the state for this or that. Just get on your horse and ride on.

Skin Care Specialist

[MayisontheWay]

I still think you should not worry about the nurse that may/may not presenting fraud. You are waisting too much energy on something that makes you sound a bit more jealous than actually concerned if she is comitting fraud. Look, many times I have nurses reporting another person that just may be doing better than another "nurse". Fraud is a big word. I have met many jealous nurses that report others to the state for this or that. Just get on your horse and ride on.

Skin Care Specialist

The only time I've "waisted" on this topic is here with you guys today. If it meant that much to me, I would've done something months ago. I don't really care what I sound like to you. I'm a rules kind of girl. I follow them and expect others to also. It's what I teach my children and what I expect of them. Following the rules isn't too much to expect of your boss.

May

[skincarespecialist]

I think I offended you? I am sorry! I just know many nurses actually that are just jealous because another nurse seems as though she/he has received breaks in achieving this/or that. I know in my specific work nurses are overcome with jealousy because another nurse found a nitch that had not been addressed by nursing/medicine. I do not think you have wasted time expressing your feelings. I think you are waisting time that could be used to do something better for yourself.

You like rules...good...I like rules...but once I realize a rule may be broken I cannot spend time chasing something I cannot change. I think you are a great nurse. And great nurses...get up...move on from anything that may waist your energy.

Skin Care Specialist

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

I didn't make the rules...the rules are clear. X number of hours at the bedside during the previous year. She simply doesn't do it, hasn't done it since I've been there and has never been seen doing patient care by ANY nurse I've worked with. How do you argue with that?

I'm not arguing with it. I was answering Angie who said the manager would probably fail, and my guess is that depending on how long she's been a nurse, passing is going to be relatively simple, even if it's been a while since she's had hands on.

If the rules say she needs hands on to sit for the exam and she forged her way into the exam, that is wrong, plain wrong.

I'm curious which speciality you're in, because for med-surg, management experience counts. Those that signed to say she was working on the floor are just as wrong. Shame you work around such dishonesty.

[MayisontheWay]

Critical care practice as a registered nurse is required for 1,750 hours in direct bedside care of (adult, neonatal or pediatric) acutely or critically ill patients during the 2-year period preceding date of application, with 875 of those hours accrued in the most recent year preceding application...

Nurses serving as manager, educator (in-service or academic), CNS or preceptor may now apply their hours spent supervising nursing students or nurses at the bedside. Nurses in these roles must be actively involved in caring for patients at the bedside; for example, demonstrating how to measure pulmonary artery pressures or supervising a new employee or student nurse performing a procedure.

The bold part is their emphasis, not mine. This is a direct quote from CCRN eligibility rules on the AACN website.

http://web.aacn.org/WD/Certifications/Content/ccrn.pcms?pid=309&mid=2869#Initial

[Jolie, BSN]

OK, so supervision counts. What's the problem?

[SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN]

Critical care practice as a registered nurse is required for 1,750 hours in direct bedside care of (adult, neonatal or pediatric) acutely or critically ill patients during the 2-year period preceding date of application, with 875 of those hours accrued in the most recent year preceding application...

Nurses serving as manager, educator (in-service or academic), CNS or preceptor may now apply their hours spent supervising nursing students or nurses at the bedside. Nurses in these roles must be actively involved in caring for patients at the bedside; for example, demonstrating how to measure pulmonary artery pressures or supervising a new employee or student nurse performing a procedure.

The bold part is their emphasis, not mine. This is a direct quote from CCRN eligibility rules on the AACN website.

http://web.aacn.org/WD/Certifications/Content/ccrn.pcms?pid=309&mid=2869#Initial

I think that this is being misinterpreted to mean that the supervisor must be AT the bedside doing that supervision. How would anyone be managed if managers had to be holding subordinates' hands at every step?

You can't effectively supervise and manage that which you don't know.

[MayisontheWay]

OK, so supervision counts. What's the problem?

Gosh, You're absolutely right! Now that I read it again, I see there's no bedside requirement at all.

[MayisontheWay]

I think that this is being misinterpreted to mean that the supervisor must be AT the bedside doing that supervision. How would anyone be managed if managers had to be holding subordinates' hands at every step?

You can't effectively supervise and manage that which you don't know.

No misinterpretation. It even provides an example. Again, I didn't make the rules, but the rules are very clear.

[MayisontheWay]

I'm not arguing with it. I was answering Angie who said the manager would probably fail, and my guess is that depending on how long she's been a nurse, passing is going to be relatively simple, even if it's been a while since she's had hands on.

If the rules say she needs hands on to sit for the exam and she forged her way into the exam, that is wrong, plain wrong.

I'm curious which speciality you're in, because for med-surg, management experience counts. Those that signed to say she was working on the floor are just as wrong. Shame you work around such dishonesty.

Sorry, Tweety. I'm not sure who I'm arguing with anymore. And you're right, it is a shame that some NM's do this. That's why it ticks people off so much. It's straight up dishonesty.

[BBFRN, BSN, PhD]

Just my 2 cents: I've known multiple managers who moonlight at other hospitals or with agency on the down-low, because they are supposed to be on call 24 hrs/day. Some work in the same type of area that they manage at their home hospitals, and some work in other areas. Your manager may be doing this, but you'll never know about it, because it could get her in trouble at your facility.