Is having a ADN useless these days?

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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Do employers favor those with a BSN ?

This article gives a pretty accurate picture of what the market is like for ASNs in the Philly area:

Jobs hard to find for new nurses | Philadelphia Inquirer | 01/31/2010

Trust me, the job market is terrible for ALL graduate nurses around these parts. Terrible. But at some of the major hospitals, BSNs at least have the advantage of having the minimum degree required. Like I said, this is for one market that I am familiar with. It may be quite different where you live.

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I am an ADN RN who got a BSN through a state university's online program. Took me 18 months of part time online, study. It was easy. I didn't learn anything about nursing as there was only one nursing class, community health nursing, but it don't cover any ground not covered in my ADN program. I did get good at writing APA fluff papers about silly subjects. There was a a class designed to teach cultural sensitivity but it was shallow and superficial.

For me it was simply a box to be checked. My hospital paid for it. I don't make any more money. It seems to me that if a BSN was valuable it would bring in more money than an ADN. I understand that some hospitals pay a small pittance more.

It's a shame there wasn't a better RN - BSN program available to you.

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That is all I hear about ADN-BSN programs, it is just a formality. Thing is I already have a bachelors in another field. I really cannot rationalize doing anything towards a BSN without a job first. I am aware of many top pedigree BSNs without jobs and loans due now. I paid cash for my ADN, it was not cheap, but I knew that I didn't want to be saddled with loans again, till I knew I had some concrete way of paying them down. I really feel for those people who are out there now, like me, but burdened also with loans coming due on top of all else. I can't help but think about the - BSN gives you more options idea... how long will that be so, with the changes in healthcare and the economy. I just heard of someone who graduated with an ADN, and got a job managing a "outpatient specialty care" business (not being specific so I don't identify anyone), and is making what I hear to be 70,000! No prior experience in healthcare, or in business for that matter, no previous degree. Just a little experience in a customer-service/entertainment related job... How can this happen? IDK. It certainly seems to be just opposite of the idea that you need to have clinical experience and also BSN, but more so MSN to qualify for these jobs!

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This article gives a pretty accurate picture of what the market is like for ASNs in the Philly area:

Jobs hard to find for new nurses | Philadelphia Inquirer | 01/31/2010

Trust me, the job market is terrible for ALL graduate nurses around these parts. Terrible. But at some of the major hospitals, BSNs at least have the advantage of having the minimum degree required. Like I said, this is for one market that I am familiar with. It may be quite different where you live.

Hello. I plan on moving to south Jersey from Nc. Is the job market bad for new grads or for experienced nurses also? Are ltc facilities and hh still hiring?

You know what's funny? In Nc they wanted lpns instead of rns because they were cheaper,so this argument wasn't even relevent in that area of the Usa

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Specializes in OB-Gyn/Primary Care/Ambulatory Leadership.
I am an ADN RN who got a BSN through a state university's online program. Took me 18 months of part time online, study. It was easy. I didn't learn anything about nursing as there was only one nursing class, community health nursing, but it don't cover any ground not covered in my ADN program. I did get good at writing APA fluff papers about silly subjects. There was a a class designed to teach cultural sensitivity but it was shallow and superficial.

For me it was simply a box to be checked. My hospital paid for it. I don't make any more money. It seems to me that if a BSN was valuable it would bring in more money than an ADN. I understand that some hospitals pay a small pittance more.

My husband is currently doing an online RN-BSN program and he totally agrees with you. They're fluff classes and pretty meaningless. It's just hoops that he has to jump through in order to get into the MSN program he wants to start.

I, OTOH, am skipping the bachelor's altogether - my program offers a bridge, and I'll be going right for the Master's.

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Specializes in Psych, Chem Dependency, Occ. Health.
It's a shame there wasn't a better RN - BSN program available to you.

I agree. I have learned so much in my RN-BSN program. I knew very little about evidenced-based practice, or how to research, or how to implement evidence-based changes in practice or why any of that mattered. Now I do. I understand both the how and why of nursing practice and why we need to be sharing research and evidence based studies with our peers. I understand the need to be an agent of change in healthcare. I feel there was very little "Fluff" in my program and it certainly expanded my knowledge as an RN.

Sue, RN

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Specializes in Ante-Intra-Postpartum, Post Gyne.

Yes, Having my ADN is worthless...

The $11,000/month I'm currently pulling in Riverside California really has me down and out. I feel so inadequate making twice what advanced-practice nurses are making in the same field back in Atlanta.

So you are making 137.50/hr? Even with over-time I do not understand how you could possibly be making $11,000/month.

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Specializes in Med/Surg.
I agree. I have learned so much in my RN-BSN program. I knew very little about evidenced-based practice, or how to research, or how to implement evidence-based changes in practice or why any of that mattered. Now I do. I understand both the how and why of nursing practice and why we need to be sharing research and evidence based studies with our peers. I understand the need to be an agent of change in healthcare. I feel there was very little "Fluff" in my program and it certainly expanded my knowledge as an RN.

Sue, RN

I'm glad to hear you found your RN-BSN program helpful to your practice. I have never understood why BSN programs take so much heat. I am graduating this year and have yet to come across any "fluff" classes (whatever that means). In my state, the 4-year students take 8 credits of chemistry, statistics, health assessment, pharmacology, nutrition, pathophys, community, etc., etc... doesn't seem too fluffy to me.

Granted, some of the non-nursing general ed classes required for ANY bachelor's degree haven't been vital to my success in nursing classes, but they helped me become a better writer and communicator.

Point being, education is not useless.

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Specializes in Acute Care Psych, DNP Student.

I don't think anyone is questioning the impressive careers many, many ADNs have been able to cultivate in the past. Rather, I think the relevant question is this: is the current economy shifting and diminishing the value of new grads' ADN degrees in many areas of the United States?

Maybe the marketplace will solve the decades-old question of ADN v. BSN. The shortage rendered the issue moot, previously. If the economy stays bad long enough, will we see ADNs slowly directed towards LTC and away from acute care employment? I don't know - perhaps.

I entered an ADN program because I got an offer to skip the program's 3 year wait-list and because the BSN program I was about to apply to only accepts 1/5 applicants. Now I'm 3 classes away from graduating with an RN-BSN degree. I find the differences in curricula and students quite interesting, and I understand why many employers prefer BSN graduates.

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I think the RN-BSN bridge programs differ from the start-from-scratch BSN programs. The science classes are not involved in the bridge program. I wouldn't consider University oriented Chemistry classes "fluff". This is what's required at the university I just got accepted to.

Here is an example:

For the ADN prgram at the CC I did my prerequisites at they require just this CHEM class:

CHM-111--(4)

FUNDAMENTALS OF CHEMISTRY

Prerequisite: 1 year of high school algebra or MTH 095 with a grade of "C" or better. An introductory course with laboratory in the basic fundamentals of inorganic chemistry with an introduction to organic, nuclear and biochemistry. Topics include metric system, atomic theory, nomenclature, bonding, stoichiometry, properties of matter, solutions, acids and bases, pH, and organic functional groups. The course does not assume that students have had high school chemistry, and is intended for nonscience liberal arts students and those who plan to pursue a career in allied health or nursing. The course is also designed as an entry-level course for CHM-131 for students who need a chemical foundation prior to enrolling in university-oriented chemistry.

The State University I am attending requires these two below:

CHM-131--(4)

CHEMISTRY (UNIVERSITY ORIENTED) I

Prerequisite: 1 year of high school chemistry or CHM-111. Principles and theories of inorganic chemistry; molecular, atomic, nuclear and electronic theories of matter related to the periodic table; oxidation-reduction; and theories of solution are explored. For students in chemistry, chemical engineering, or physical science programs.

CHM-203--(5)

ORGANIC CHEMISTRY I

Prerequisite: CHM-132. Modern concepts of the structure of organic compounds; correlation between structure, spectroscopy and properties are explored. Reactions, reaction mechanism, study of aliphatic and aromatic hydrocarbons, alkyl halides, alcohols, ethers, and carboxylic acids are covered. Fee is required.

They will not even look at the general CHEM-111 class that the CC accepts for their ADN's. Not only do you have to pass these 2 CHEM classes, but you have to pretty much get A's in these classes to even compete for a spot. From the way it appears, the level of knowledge a BSN has in the physical sciences does not even compare to the ADN program. I think the RN-BSN bridge type programs do not require you to take these science classes which are far from "fluff".

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Specializes in Acute Care Psych, DNP Student.
I think the RN-BSN bridge programs differ from the start-from-scratch BSN programs. The science classes are not involved in the bridge program. I wouldn't consider University oriented Chemistry classes "fluff". This is what's required at the university I just got accepted to.

The science courses in my RN-BSN program and all of the programs I looked at did not differ for traditional BSN v. RN-BSN. The math classes did. I had to take university-level math (higher than required for my ADN) for the RN-BSN program.

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
I agree. I have learned so much in my RN-BSN program. I knew very little about evidenced-based practice, or how to research, or how to implement evidence-based changes in practice or why any of that mattered. Now I do. I understand both the how and why of nursing practice and why we need to be sharing research and evidence based studies with our peers. I understand the need to be an agent of change in healthcare. I feel there was very little "Fluff" in my program and it certainly expanded my knowledge as an RN.

Sue, RN

*** That's fantastic that you gained so much from your program. My program too went fairly in depth into evidence based practice and research. However it didn't cover any new ground for me. I suppose that I where to have done the BSN as a new grad nurse I would have learned more. We had one patho class but I never studied and it was a breeze for me as it was for the other CCRN certified, experienced ICU nurses in the class with me.

We all come into these programs from different starting points. About half of the people in my RN to BSN program already had BS degrees in things like engineering, biology, dairy science (hey this IS Wisconsin), chemistry and even one in mortuary science.

To me the great thing about the ADN programs, and why I never want to see them go away. They bring in many second and third career people into nursing. I think these people are one of nursing's great strenghths. The other thing ADN programs do is bring in males. The SICU where I work has 56 full time nurses and more part time and casual RNs. Slightly over half are men. Here in Wisconsin there was a state program to pay for dislocated factory workers, dairy farmers, truck drivers, loggers etc to be re-trained at one of Wisconsin's community colleges (called Technical Colleges). Many of those people chose nursing and they make fantastic ICU nurses who bring a lifetime of decision making and problem solving experience to their jobs. They also have superior Bull **** detectors that go off whenever management tries to implement their newest and greatest plan to work nurses harder and pay us less. They also don't take any crap from doctors. I think nursing would be much worse off without these types of people among us.

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