Is having a ADN useless these days?

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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Do employers favor those with a BSN ?

Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
I think the RN-BSN bridge programs differ from the start-from-scratch BSN programs. The science classes are not involved in the bridge program. I wouldn't consider University oriented Chemistry classes "fluff". This is what's required at the university I just got accepted to.

Here is an example:

For the ADN prgram at the CC I did my prerequisites at they require just this CHEM class:

CHM-111--(4)

FUNDAMENTALS OF CHEMISTRY

CHM-131--(4)

CHEMISTRY (UNIVERSITY ORIENTED) I

*** I don't doubt for a second that the chem classes required by the university you mentioned are not fluff. However just because one has BSN after their name is no indication they took such chem classes. I have a BSN and have never taken any sort of chem class (tested out).

The other question is are such classes necessary or even helpful for one to be a good nurse? I don't think so. After all nursing is pretty easy and not very demanding from a science point of view. I am fully convinced that a basic understanding of chem is all one needed to allow the nurse to fully comprehend the subjects needed for nursing. There comes a point where we are taking classes just to take them, or for a university to have bragging rights, not because they will make us better nurses.

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I've always thought that this type of tense argument has simple roots. ADN in many cases is much more inexpensive than a BSN. In the real world there is no real pay difference for an ADN nurse vs a BSN nurse.

I'd be ****** if I thought I'd benefit from shelling out the big bucks for a BSN too. ADN colleges are most competitive for entrance in my area due to the demand. Friends I took prereqs with had to go BSN as they did not pass muster for ADN acceptance.

But, I am older and wiser as must all the young ones out there be. You have to really check if there is a reason to foot such a bill. Of course I figured I would not have a fight to find employment as is equally a problem for all new grads, but other things having been researched, having this as a second career/degree, I know what paying huge loans is all about. I know I must pay them back. Seeking education for reasons other than "personal growth" means looking into the cost/benefit ratio. If you get your ADN, start working, and then work on your MSN (would be my route) makes sense with tuition reimbursement.

The grass will always be greener somewhere.

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Specializes in Acute Care Psych, DNP Student.

Some courses are only tangentially related to the practice of one's profession, but weed out based upon intelligence. It benefits the profession to have members with higher levels of intelligence. For example, physicians don't really need all the undergrad Physics courses they take, but having to take and master such courses leaves the cream of the crop IQ wise, and that higher level of intelligence translates into smarter professionals within that profession.

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Specializes in ICU.
I'm glad to hear you found your RN-BSN program helpful to your practice. I have never understood why BSN programs take so much heat. I am graduating this year and have yet to come across any "fluff" classes (whatever that means). In my state, the 4-year students take 8 credits of chemistry, statistics, health assessment, pharmacology, nutrition, pathophys, community, etc., etc... doesn't seem too fluffy to me.

Granted, some of the non-nursing general ed classes required for ANY bachelor's degree haven't been vital to my success in nursing classes, but they helped me become a better writer and communicator.

Point being, education is not useless.

In that case, for me, a BSN would be absolute fluff.

I took a year of chemistry, biology, and applied college mathematics (16 credits each) - all with labs; 8 credits of calculus; and 4 credits of physics with my first degree - not to mention the internships, arts, foreign language (French), writing intensives, ecology, and others.

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Um, yes it was...

It was the intent of the original author AND as it turns out the title and focus of the thread.

Is having a ADN useless these days?

Sure, for "all of you that know better"... I'm working exactly 4 shifts/week. 48-hrs. A whopping 8-hrs overtime! Not a great deal of overtime mind you. I certainly have worked MUCH harder for MUCH less.

My salary/wage was emphasized simply to demonstrate that for the impact of the ADN I possess, I know of a great deal of NP's that don't make near as much. My point... ADN, NOT so worthless.

As for cost of living... let me elaborate some more.

Little to NONE. Yep NONE

Travelers are compensated for cost of living in the form of stipends ($1500.00/WEEK that's NOT a part of my wages and is Tax-Free) The quick math 6000.00/month, 72,000.00/year Tax-Free that's not even my income.

I pay no rent, no utilities. Just food & gas.

Hell, My insurance is even comp-ed by the company. Yours probably comes out of your check and your wages. I don't care where you're living, which cost of living do you think is greater? Yours.

Again, NO ONE said that the ADN is useless. The OP used the word "useless" in the title as a question, NOT a statement. The OP's original post consisted of one sentence in which she questioned if BSNs were preferred by employers.

The figures you are throwing around don't add up. You make $11K/month which is $132K/year. Subract the $72K/year you are supposed to be getting for housing and that leaves $60K/year for wages. When divided by 48 weeks and 48 hours/week, you are only averaging $26/hour for wages...less than I make. There are potentially other problems with these figures depending on your exact situation--I'm not asking or care to know--but I don't care to attempt to speculate on them all.

But you are right about my cost of living being higher. I have to pay a whopping $9/month for my insurance!

What I find very interesting and more telling than that WHAT you have said is HOW you have said it. Your comments come across as quite angry. No one else here has said anything that has justified that kind of emotion. It makes one wonder which nerve was touched by this thread.

PS...Oh, and by the way, if you are working 48 hours/week in 4 shifts, you are working 12 hour shifts, so you are actually working an extra 12 hours/week but only getting overtime for 8 hours.

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I don't think anyone is questioning the impressive careers many, many ADNs have been able to cultivate in the past. Rather, I think the relevant question is this: is the current economy shifting and diminishing the value of new grads' ADN degrees in many areas of the United States?

Maybe the marketplace will solve the decades-old question of ADN v. BSN. The shortage rendered the issue moot, previously. If the economy stays bad long enough, will we see ADNs slowly directed towards LTC and away from acute care employment? I don't know - perhaps.

Exactly!

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Some courses are only tangentially related to the practice of one's profession, but weed out based upon intelligence. It benefits the profession to have members with higher levels of intelligence. For example, physicians don't really need all the undergrad Physics courses they take, but having to take and master such courses leaves the cream of the crop IQ wise, and that higher level of intelligence translates into smarter professionals within that profession.

What people are calling "fluff" classes are classes like english, history, math, literature, anthrpology, etc. I think these people just don't value education and are intimidated by people that have a higher degree than them. I think all of the classes that are required, even if they are not related to nursing, are necessary for being a well-rounded person. Also, as far as your physics example, you're right, they don't need physics to be a doctor per se, but they're understanding of it helps them have a deeper understanding of medicine and life in general. I don't think it's just to weed out lower IQs.

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Specializes in Med/Surg.
In that case, for me, a BSN would be absolute fluff.quote]

No, it would be a BSN. Not fluff. That goes on peanut butter sandwiches :)

All jokes aside... really, I cannot get over the amount of criticism nurses receive for attaining what is a minimal requirement in almost every other profession. My husband is an engineer, and as such, had to have a bachelor's degree. Accountants, educators, etc., all need a 4 year degree to get into their fields. God forbid a RN has a bachelor's degree in his/her field....oh my, why would he/she want to do that??

I have met some absolutely fantastic ADN nurses, some questionable BSN's, and vice versa. But, until nursing has one route to entry, the public will continue to be confused and our profession will continue to claw each other's eyes out. :mad:

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So, the importance is not patient care or experience, it's how you made the hospital look as far as ratings? Perfect example of what's wrong with our field.

Not to mention that Magnet hospitals treat their nurses like crap. My eyes goes:eek: when I read some of the replies.

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
[i have met some absolutely fantastic ADN nurses, some questionable BSN's, and vice versa. But, until nursing has one route to entry, the public will continue to be confused and our profession will continue to claw each other's eyes out. :mad:

*** First of all it is not ADN nurses who start clawing anyone until the "BSN only" crowd starts in on them. As for public confusion I don't see it in my life or practice. I am an RN. Everyone knows what that is and it requires no further explanation.

In my opinion one of the worst things that could happen to the field of nursing would be to exclude all the second and third career types that enter through the ADN programs (also through the accelerated BSN and MSN as entry programs but nobody is trying to get rid of them). I believe that our profession would much the worse if we excluded all the people who come to nursing from child raising, farming, logging, truck driving, small business, and a thousands other fields.

I formed this opinion based on my experience of having worked in a hospital where very single nurse had a BSN and nearly all came to nursing school from high school.

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
Not to mention that Magnet hospitals treat their nurses like crap. My eyes goes:eek: when I read some of the replies.

*** That has been my experience as well. The two hospitals I have experience where nurses where treated the best were not Magnet. I only have personal experience working in two Magnet hospitals and nurses where treated badly in both.

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Specializes in ICU.

No, it would be a BSN. Not fluff. That goes on peanut butter sandwiches :)

All jokes aside... really, I cannot get over the amount of criticism nurses receive for attaining what is a minimal requirement is almost every other profession. My husband is an engineer, and as such, had to have a bachelor's degree. Accountants, educators, etc., all need a 4 year degree to get into their fields. God forbid a RN has a bachelor's degree in his/her field....oh my, why would he/she want to do that??

I have met some absolutely fantastic ADN nurses, some questionable BSN's, and vice versa. But, until nursing has one route to entry, the public will continue to be confused and our profession will continue to claw each other's eyes out. :mad:

Peanut butter and fluff sandwich??! I don't put fluff on mah peanut buttah sammiches. I like grape jelly. Mmmmmm....

A B.S. in Biology + an ADN isn't all that different than a BSN, except for the letters after your name. When it comes to breadth and quality of education, I think anybody with half a clue about higher ed would know that. An ADN just might be enough to get my foot in the door. That's all I need. I think I can probably live without 3 credits of "Nursing as a Profession" (total fluff). Besides, I would be a grade A idiot if I let some stranger trying to justify their own choices, guilt me into dropping an additional $15-30k for a buck more an hour and break room bragging rights.

I think what this discussion all boils down to is that pretty much everybody ever, on the planet, in the history of mankind, likes to feel superior. But folks who've been around the undergraduate block can see through the BS (puns are cool!).

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