Is having an ADN really a terrible choice?

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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Hello!! I just recently graduated with an ADN degree one week ago and waiting to take my boards. I been.an LPN 8yrs amd finally decided togo back for my RN anf here i am...but i digress...

Is having an ADN REALLY that? I already have a job lined up and i will be starting soon....the main reason i offered the position was becuz of my RN completion and i will be takin my NCLEX soon. Grant it, it at a LTAC facility but i figure this is a great way for me to get experience and.not become part of the sooo many new grads (ADN&BSN) that are not employed becuz they soooo desire to work in a hospital.

So please can someone clarify, IS HAVING AN A.D.N. DEGREE A TERRIBLE HORRIBLE NO GOOD VERY BAD WASTE??

(some post i read sure makes it feel that way) :-(

Specializes in Pediatrics/Developmental Pediatrics/Research/psych.
BSN Prepared Nurses Connected to Fewer Patient Deaths

This is one of the reason. New York will stop hiring ADN next year. I don't know which classes BSN students take which is not in the ADN program but if that equates to lesser mortality, BSN is worth pursuing.

I can't see that this study controls for the difference between BSN entry level or those who practiced first as AAS/ADN then went RN-BSN.

These are very different.

Also, was there a difference in the hospital types? I know here in NYC most of the hospitals that require BSN are more advanced in all areas. This means that not all factors are controlled for.

Another question is what schools they went to. We're they private/for profit/public/online...

I'd like to see substantial research.

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
I can't see that this study controls for the difference between BSN entry level or those who practiced first as AAS/ADN then went RN-BSN. These are very different. Also was there a difference in the hospital types? I know here in NYC most of the hospitals that require BSN are more advanced in all areas. This means that not all factors are controlled for. Another question is what schools they went to. We're they private/for profit/public/online... I'd like to see substantial research.[/quote']

Articulate your concern for not controlling for BSN-entry vs post-licensure BSN. They both indicate that increased education was associated with significantly different patient outcomes. The amount of RN experience was consistent between the two groups.

Hospital types did vary but acuity was consistent between the two groups. There is a valid concern regarding other aspects of care in major academic settings vs community settings, however, that is a two-way street. In example, a major academic hospital may have the most talented surgeons but they also have interns and residents and medical students managing care.

Don't get me wrong, these are valid concerns for the study design, among other concerns. I do not think that it negates the data in this case but more research is important.

So my question for you, as someone that believes more research is needed: who is doing the research? ADNs? BSNs? MSNs? What is your role going to be? What about your colleagues and classmates? The need for research itself is an argument for more BSN+ nurses.

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((HUGS)) get used to it it's been going on FOR YEARS.....beatdedhorse.gif

decades

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Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
decades
AMEN!
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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.

Sorry, does the fact an issue has been discussed/debated for years or decades mean that it is no longer worth discussing? The landmark study on the issue was published in 2002, barely a decade ago, with several other studies published in the past two years. Additionally, the current trend in nursing education and employer hiring practices, have made the issue quite a hot topic.

Edit: I really don't mean this to sound harsh or rude, but I do think it is a topic that is worth discussing as the profession evolves. I don't "have a horse in the race" so to speak, but I do think this will continue to be a hot topic.

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Sorry, does the fact an issue has been discussed/debated for years or decades mean that it is no longer worth discussing? The landmark study on the issue was published in 2002, barely a decade ago, with several other studies published in the past two years. Additionally, the current trend in nursing education and employer hiring practices, have made the issue quite a hot topic.

Edit: I really don't mean this to sound harsh or rude, but I do think it is a topic that is worth discussing as the profession evolves. I don't "have a horse in the race" so to speak, but I do think this will continue to be a hot topic.

I too think this will continue to be a "hot topic". Now i may not have been a nurse 20yrs ago, but in the 8yrs i have been a nurse i i have always heard this "LPN vs RN" debate...and how LPN should be phased out. I for one has yet to be without a job thankfully as an LPN, and seeing how i jus completed ADN school it will be quite interesting to see how the trend will continue. Now that i have completed an ADN program the big hype is "ADN vs BSN

My next question is: Does anyone really see the goal of 80% BSN by 2020.?

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It just means it's being going on for decades.

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Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.
I too think this will continue to be a "hot topic". Now i may not have been a nurse 20yrs ago but in the 8yrs i have been a nurse i i have always heard this "LPN vs RN" debate...and how LPN should be phased out. I for one has yet to be without a job thankfully as an LPN, and seeing how i jus completed ADN school it will be quite interesting to see how the trend will continue. Now that i have completed an ADN program the big hype is "ADN vs BSN My next question is: Does anyone really see the goal of 80% BSN by 2020.?[/quote']

I think the way the trend is going, the 80% will be close, but fall short of the mark nationally; however in many areas there may be able to reach that mark purely due to the markets preferring the BSN, just not in every market.

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NY is pushing hard for it, though the bill did not pass in 2012, it is up again for 2013.

BSN Requirement Considered in New York : Association of periOperative Registered Nurses

If or when NYS finally ever gets around to passing that "BSN in Ten" bill may soon be irrelevant. At least in the NYC area more and more hospitals the BSN is either required or strongly preferred at least for new grads. NS-LIJ already has implemented it's mandate with the others having various forms either formally or informally.

Other thing is slowly independent hospitals are vanishing and either merging into larger healthcare systems or simply closing. Mount Sinai and Continuum Partners was the last big recent one and IIRC that means there are no longer any "private" hospitals left in Manhattan. They are all part of several large healthcare networks. Going forward what this could and often does mean for nurses is that staffing/hiring decisions including educational requirements are done on a *corporate* level that then affect everyone.

Case in point would be Staten Island. NS-LIJ owns two of the three main hospitals on *the Rock* and has previously mentioned they have gone to a all BSN policy. However there is only one BSN undergrad program on SI (Wagner). The two most popular choices were or still are the College of SI and Saint Paul's (formerly Saint Vincent's) associate programs.

If two of the three hospitals on SI will only accept BSN graduates as new hires where are the ADN grads going to find work? The only other hospital on SI is Richmond University Medical Center (formerly Saint Vincent's), and while one does not know if they have a formal BSN only policy, their RN hiring seems to steer towards "BSN preferred". Career Opportunities | Richmond University Medical Center (RUMC) | Staten Island Health Services | Anesthesia, Behavioral Health, Mental Health, Substance Abuse, Cardiology, Community Programs and Support Groups, Diabetes, Emergency Services, Endosco

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I too think this will continue to be a "hot topic". Now i may not have been a nurse 20yrs ago, but in the 8yrs i have been a nurse i i have always heard this "LPN vs RN" debate...and how LPN should be phased out. I for one has yet to be without a job thankfully as an LPN, and seeing how i jus completed ADN school it will be quite interesting to see how the trend will continue. Now that i have completed an ADN program the big hype is "ADN vs BSN

My next question is: Does anyone really see the goal of 80% BSN by 2020.?

LPN/LVN hiring in hospitals is largely dependent upon demographics. Here in NYC as one recalls LPNs have been "phased out" of acute care hospitals for decades now. Nursing homes, home care, LTC, well mother/baby and so forth were where LPN jobs were. Indeed Curtis High School on Staten Island which has a respected and long running LPN program does not send their students to local hospitals for clinical rotations any longer; but rather physician offices and so forth.

Posted a link some time ago in another thread to a study done by the federal government (Medicare?) in the 1980's or 1970's. It showed that a bulk of hospital care in NYC even then was provided by RNs with or without nursing assistants. In nursing homes the ratio was reversed with LPNs and aides providing most of the care. Usually the lone RN was either supervisor or even DON who's license everyone else in theory worked "under".

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Have said this before and will do so again, the arguments over the value of a four year college grad versus an associates is not just within nursing. Up and down the employment market all sorts of jobs that once could be had with a two year degree or even a certificate now require a four year degree.

Secretaries, gofers, receptionists, administrative assistants, mail room clerks (yeah that one got me too), and so forth are all jobs many employers today prefer if not demand a four year degree from applicants. This is not just in large urban areas like NYC either. The NYT did a story earlier this year about a law firm in Georgia that only hires four year degree holders for any position and that included the gofer/mail room kid.

Do you need a four year degree to type letters, answer and direct telephone calls, etc...? Obviously not. Myself and countless others did their "secretarial course" in two semesters of high school and could (and many often did) find work right afterwards.

The larger question is what are employers finding unique to four year college graduates that causes them to prefer them over others.

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Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.

The larger question is what are employers finding unique to four year college graduates that causes them to prefer them over others.

Perhaps it's the general ed courses that strengthen potential sub par public education, such as English Compensation, Intro to Research Writing, College Algebra, Linear Math, Computer Application and Public Speaking-perhaps another language?-courses are courses that come to mind to help put together a informational and resourceful corporate package; long gone are the days where High school education across the board could guarantee a job at an office; unfortunately we have to strengthen how to speak properly, calculate, read and research and be able to were properly; and there are many that are below or at the bare minimum and are not ESL, as well as broaden our knowledge, cultural and social base when interacting with the public.

This "polishing" is not in vain, at least to me...interacting with various cultures and generations with ease was not all "on the job training;" a lot of it was gained through higher education; having the opportunity to know and be able to communicate in a second language and ease a patient'a anxiety in a split second or understand and be able to anticipate their cultural and spiritual needs is invaluable skills I do enjoy having.

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