I am a first term LPN student. My trouble is one older Professor (she's a retired R.N.) who has to pet, squeeze, touch, pat, rub and huddle during any conversation. I'm afraid of retaliation (she's already written me up over an honest mistake) and losing my place in program if I speak up and say stop. I don't want to be whiny--but it's distracting--she's smothering--and it makes me really uncomfortable. I understand there is a therapeutic factor to touch--but I don't need to be groped while learning. It's a small school in a small town.
She also wrote me up for being upset one day after clinicals. I was in the parking lot, leaving after we finished. I had held it together all day. She had dropped this bombshell about changed assignments that morning. I was almost at my car. She called after me--and asked two or three times how i was--assured me I could talk to her--and then took that trusted communication and turned it into a write up of me being unprofessional.
I know this program will weed out people who they don't like--no matter how good your grades are or how hard you work. I've known people who were exited because a professor did not like them. This means way too much to me. I really don't want to lose my place. I'm pretty freaked out right now. I thought I was doing well.
I'm going to go against the grain and tell you that maybe you should just chill out a bit. Think about it, you are going to be in a job that will have you touching other people in ways and parts that most people just don't care to think about. Touching other people and having them touch you back is part of the equation. Of course I'm not talking about somebody else groping you, but putting a hand on your arm or shoulder is a way of showing some care and concern and a way of connecting from one person to another, regardless of either persons sex.
Lots of people feel icky when they are are touched by somebody they don't know. I would submit that working as a nurse is going to put you into into that "icky spot" every day and you will either get over it or you wont. As for your instructor, as a retired RN, she has had her hands on more peoples bodies than you or I could ever imagine and she probably doesn't even think about it. And she probably does treat it as a therapeutic touch so consider her motivation as well. And honestly, are you sure that she didn't have some cause to be critical of your performance rather than just to retaliate for your comments? How long has she been doing this that she would let a student ruffle her in that way? I see so many rants here about this instructor has it in for me and that instructor hates guys and so much other stuff I just have to wonder how everybody survives all the drama.
So a woman - a GROWN WOMAN - should TOLERATE letting another GROWN WOMAN pat her on the BEHIND? Give me a break.
Patting a woman on the behind ISN'T therapeutic. It's harassment. It's also illegal - you could really make a case for SEXUAL harassment here, since harassment's in the eye of the recipient.
This isn't "my instructor hates me" - it's harassment. And furthermore, it's disgusting. I could care less how many bodies she's touched - she'd do well to keep them off her students.
This whole situation gets creepier by the minute, really. I ask this - how long has she been getting by with this behavior? No person needs to be "therapeutically touched" against their will. That's violating someone's personal space and not everyone's OK with that. Telling someone to tolerate it when they're not comfortable with it is - well, it's backwards.
Do it to a patient who's not touchy-feely and you're liable to find yourself slapped with either a lawsuit or, at the very least, a rather graphic complaint.
I could care less how many bodies she's touched - she'd do well to keep them off her students.
Absolutely, practicing nurses are all very used to seeing and assisting people at their most vulnerable, but this is not an excuse to touch someone else without their permission. A patient who accepts care has made a decision to allow this- for a health care professional to view and/or touch areas of their body not normally on display as needed for treatment. They can revoke consent at any time.
The instructor has a professional relationship with the student. There is always, ALWAYS a power dynamic between student and instructor. As an instructor, you have authority and power, and it should never be abused. Instructors need to honor their students- their boundaries, feelings, all aspects of their beings. If anything, I am overly cautious in this aspect; how many other students likely feel uncomfortable, but don't have the courage of the OP to seek advice and a solution?
OP- good for you. No one can decide on the right solution but you, nor can we guess the outcome. But you will have the satisfaction of knowing that you stood up for your boundaries. There are so many things to encounter as a nurse that violate decency and common sense- from abusive families and physicians, dilemmas regarding care, and advocacy for the profession of nursing and fair treatment of nurses. You are modeling self-advocacy- seeking advice, looking within for the solution, and following what apparently must be your college's chain of command for grievances.
Sorry that your respectful request not to be touched was not honored.
Give me a break! Did they also require you to do the "trust" exercise, where you put on a blindfold and fall backwards and let your classmates catch you? Nursing school isn't the Esalen Institute-- though I suspect many instructors are of an age that they may have been steeped in all that new age-y stuff.
Lol... hey, I thought that the "blindfold and fall backwards therapy" only happens in psychiatric offices? You know, for people with trust issues? At least, this is true, according to the few episodes of "Fraser" and "Will & Grace"
If any one of my instructors required this therapy, I will be at the end of the line -- since I'm not volunteering for anyone to catch me! Especially people that I've only known for a few hours, days, or weeks! Nope, no sirreee... No thanks, I'll pass...
My instructor is a touchy feely person. Everytime she talks to me, she puts her arm around me, she touches my hand when she talks etc.She doesn't do it every second, that's why It is not annoying.I don't consider it inappropriate. I also touch people when I talk, but not all the time ( I think it's a European thing lol). I don't mind at all if people touch me, as long as it is appropriate :)
I can understand the need for personal space. I can be the same way. The instructor's claim that it was therapeutic touch seems like it's a way to justify the touching to themself. I can understand that as nurses, we'll have to have our hands in all sorts of locations on people's bodies that aren't ususally visible. There is a vast difference between being professional (doing what's needed to get the job/proceedure done) to what could be viewed as a personal fettish. If there's the possibility of having the same instructor again, I'd be inclined to tread carefully. Like others have said, instructors have the power/ability to make lives miserable. I'd keep a record of what happens as it happens to be able to tell your side of the story. I hope that something positive comes of the hearing you have. At the very least, the instructor needs to know that 'hands off' means exatly that, hands off.
That sounds awful. I dont like be touched by people I have known for years. Immediate family only for touchies. I once paid for a massage and couldnt enjoy it. Let us know how it works out.
It turns out I am not the only one to have this dispute. I am the only one 'brave' enough to take it to a hearing. Turns out the college (not the school of nursing) has been waiting for anyone to come forward and go on the record about this individual instructor. Since I have taken this step more than a dozen other students have responded and come back to speak up.
I will have this instructor again. She is one of two primary instructors for the LPN program. The college is going to monitor her classes for the next year. I will graduate before the monitoring ends.
Score one for integrity and professionalism.
Thank you all so much. Words fail at how much the insight and input given here encouraged me. Thank you!
so proud of you! you had courage and determination since you felt in your heart this woman was in the wrong. i'm glad more have came forward on this same issue. good luck in NS, and good for standing up for yourself!!
I don't know, I put up with a lot of stuff because generally the school is going to support their instructors. But if ANYONE is patting my bottom and there are witnesses, I think I would have to go over her head. That is pretty much unacceptable everywhere now.
elle27, nice work!! You've taken the first important step and it worked!
When you are in her class again I would document the heck out of everything you do during clinicals to help you in case it is needed. Hopefully, this educator will realize that her behavior was inappropriate and change it, but it she attempts to retaliate, your previous incident will be on record.
Please do NOT say a word, ride it out. You should like you will maike a wonderful nurse, just get through this. She already wrote you up once for no reason. Just smile, smile, smile and do a great job of acting like you really like her.
carolinapooh, BSN, RN
3,577 Posts
So a woman - a GROWN WOMAN - should TOLERATE letting another GROWN WOMAN pat her on the BEHIND? Give me a break.
Patting a woman on the behind ISN'T therapeutic. It's harassment. It's also illegal - you could really make a case for SEXUAL harassment here, since harassment's in the eye of the recipient.
This isn't "my instructor hates me" - it's harassment. And furthermore, it's disgusting. I could care less how many bodies she's touched - she'd do well to keep them off her students.
This whole situation gets creepier by the minute, really. I ask this - how long has she been getting by with this behavior? No person needs to be "therapeutically touched" against their will. That's violating someone's personal space and not everyone's OK with that. Telling someone to tolerate it when they're not comfortable with it is - well, it's backwards.
Do it to a patient who's not touchy-feely and you're liable to find yourself slapped with either a lawsuit or, at the very least, a rather graphic complaint.