Infected staff

[Guest219794]

I tried doing a poll, but had some technical difficulty.

At my hospital, if you are infected with Covid 19, it is treated same as an appy, or a car accident. They have no responsibility, and how you fare depends on your PTO bank, insurance plan, etc..

I am trying to find both the norm, and the range of responses from various hospitals.

So- how is your employer treating infected staff?

[GSDlvrRN, MSN]

On 3/26/2020 at 6:22 AM, Wuzzie said:

Our union negotiated 80 extra hours of sick time to be used only if we are required to be sent home on quarantine but are not sick. If we test positive we have to use our regular PTO because there is no way to prove we got it at work. We are currently dealing with a positive co-worker who was asymptomatic at work and inadvertently exposed pretty much all of us. If they quarantine everyone the entire department will have to shut down which is not possible. One nurse has decided to stay home because she was "exposed" but refuses to get swabbed and is asymptomatic. The rest of us are at work wearing masks and waiting. They will swab us and send us home if we start showing symptoms. Needless to say we are pretty cheesed off at our co-worker who is getting a self-imposed 2 week vacation. But Karma can be a bad thing. We have a handful of other nurses who are making ridiculous demands because of their "special circumstances". We ALL have circumstances. I expect we'll have a "Lord of the Flies" situation if this continues.

Yes! Some of the “special circumstances” I am hearing of include having children, having a family (Don’t we all?) having diabetes, having asthma, their age, or being scared. My facility is requiring people to be cleared by HR to allow them to not come to work or not be floated to the respiratory care unit ( our r/o COVID unit, or positive for COVID unit). Individuals have been cleared for not passing the fit test for any style N95 (and there are no more PAPRs), or having a condition that compromises the immune system.

[Guest219794]

On 3/26/2020 at 8:17 PM, Nurselexii said:

I think negative vacation time is fair I think hospitals are avoiding larger lawsuits by doing this, hospitals can maybe put ineligible to rehire if nurse quits. which can damage a nurse ability to find new work, I think it is a wonderful change that a hospital is doing this for their nurses:)

I strongly disagree that this is fair. For starters, Covid ill workers in many industries other than nursing are getting paid when they are sick, and even in nursing there are huge discrepancies.

People need to have a good understanding of what earned time/PTO, etc. really is. It is a form of compensation, very much like money. If the hospital gave you this compensation in the form of cash, and you banked it, you could just pay yourself when you don't work. But, most employers know people don't have that kind of discipline, so they do an enforced savings, and call it PTO, doll it out when you don't work so you get a steady check.

We earn it, bank it, and spend it, much like money. And now, they are willing to loan it out to Covid positive nurses working in an environment with poor preparation, minimal training and wholly inadequate PPE. This falls well below the standards of millions of workers, the overwhelming majority of whom are far more likely to have community exposure than work exposure.

And, across the board, in any hospital in which nurses have leverage in the form of unions, they receive appropriate benefits.

The argument that a nurse "could have picked it up in the community" holds no water. For the most part, nurses have a good understanding of pathogen transmission, and are paranoid about Covid. When we do interact in the community, we are amongst the safest out there. Watch how the general public uses PPE next time you are out. Compare that risk level to working in an environment in which distancing is physically possible, and we are, without any doubt, exposed to asymptomatic carriers who are not tested to to inadequate supplies.

So yes, a nurse could contract Covid outside of the hospital. Much like a smoker could develop lung cancer from unknown radon exposure or a genetic mutation. The fact that any given smoke could cancer unrelated to smoking has not absolved the legal responsibility of tobacco companies.

Anybody who thinks there is anything fair about forcing covid positive nurses to use their own resources when sick, just like a appendicitis or other illness, needs to look at how walmart employees are treated.

Quote

If your store, club, office or distribution center is part of a mandated quarantine or if you’re required to quarantine by a government agency or by Walmart, you will receive up to two weeks of pay, and absences during the time you are out will not count against attendance. We’ve chosen two weeks because it matches the recommended time for quarantines related to this virus.

Should an associate have a confirmed case of the virus, they’ll receive up to two weeks of pay. If they’re not able to return to work after that time, additional pay replacement may be provided for up to 26 weeks for both full-time and part-time hourly associates.

https://corporate.walmart.com/newsroom/2020/03/10/new-covid-19-policy-to-support-the-health-of-our-associates

Kudos to Walmart for doing the right thing. Those workers deserve the benefits Walmart gives them, and I appreciate them keeping us supplied. In what world is it fair that even with known work related exposure, we don't merit the benefits afforded a fork lift operator?

[Nurselexii]

25 minutes ago, hherrn said:

I strongly disagree that this is fair. For starters, Covid ill workers in many industries other than nursing are getting paid when they are sick, and even in nursing there are huge discrepancies.

People need to have a good understanding of what earned time/PTO, etc. really is. It is a form of compensation, very much like money. If the hospital gave you this compensation in the form of cash, and you banked it, you could just pay yourself when you don't work. But, most employers know people don't have that kind of discipline, so they do an enforced savings, and call it PTO, doll it out when you don't work so you get a steady check.

We earn it, bank it, and spend it, much like money. And now, they are willing to loan it out to Covid positive nurses working in an environment with poor preparation, minimal training and wholly inadequate PPE. This falls well below the standards of millions of workers, the overwhelming majority of whom are far more likely to have community exposure than work exposure.

And, across the board, in any hospital in which nurses have leverage in the form of unions, they receive appropriate benefits.

The argument that a nurse "could have picked it up in the community" holds no water. For the most part, nurses have a good understanding of pathogen transmission, and are paranoid about Covid. When we do interact in the community, we are amongst the safest out there. Watch how the general public uses PPE next time you are out. Compare that risk level to working in an environment in which distancing is physically possible, and we are, without any doubt, exposed to asymptomatic carriers who are not tested to to inadequate supplies.

So yes, a nurse could contract Covid outside of the hospital. Much like a smoker could develop lung cancer from unknown radon exposure or a genetic mutation. The fact that any given smoke could cancer unrelated to smoking has not absolved the legal responsibility of tobacco companies.

Anybody who thinks there is anything fair about forcing covid positive nurses to use their own resources when sick, just like a appendicitis or other illness, needs to look at how walmart employees are treated.

https://corporate.walmart.com/newsroom/2020/03/10/new-covid-19-policy-to-support-the-health-of-our-associates

Kudos to Walmart for doing the right thing. Those workers deserve the benefits Walmart gives them, and I appreciate them keeping us supplied. In what world is it fair that even with known work related exposure, we don't merit the benefits afforded a fork lift operator?

When I read the original post on vacation time, I took it to mean if you are ill or exposed, you do not have to use your PTO, they will give you two weeks off time (paid) but if you need more or at risk you can use this option instead of fmla.there is another poster who said her hospital is making nurses who have been exposed use their PTO, and if their test is negative they get marked absent (if no pto) get an occurrence and have to make up their weekend. So I thought a hospital being allowed to take 3 months plus off and just work it back (negative vacation time) was nice ?

[Guest219794]

Sorry- maybe I wasn't clear.

To be clear, even when it clearly work related, and you test positive, many hospitals are not treating it as work related. As with any non-work related illness, how you fare will depend on how you prepared. What insurance, how much money in the bank, how much PTO in the bank, etc.

[Nurselexii]

8 minutes ago, hherrn said:

Sorry- maybe I wasn't clear.

To be clear, even when it clearly work related, and you test positive, many hospitals are not treating it as work related. As with any non-work related illness, how you fare will depend on how you prepared. What insurance, how much money in the bank, how much PTO in the bank, etc.

No worries:) oh it should definitely be treated as work related

[Nurselexii]

8 minutes ago, hherrn said:

Sorry- maybe I wasn't clear.

To be clear, even when it clearly work related, and you test positive, many hospitals are not treating it as work related. As with any non-work related illness, how you fare will depend on how you prepared. What insurance, how much money in the bank, how much PTO in the bank, etc.

No worries:) oh it should definitely be treated as work related

[waufah, BSN, RN]

A friend of mine tested positive and they told him, there is no way to proof he got it from work so, they will not pay. Unlucky him,he just graduated in Dec 2019,first job as a nurse,so no PTO/FMLA. He has been out for three weeks without pay waiting for his second test to be negative. Unfortunately,he cant apply for unemployment because if he ever applies for US Citizenship they might deny him because he used public funds (he has been working and paying taxes for the last 15years).

Meanwhile, I have been in Ireland for 2 years,working and going to college. I had COVID-19 symptoms,waiting for test results anxiously in self isolation. I am still getting paid my full salary,without affecting my vacation hours and if my employer was to let me go for some reason I qualify for 350 Euros a week from the goverment during the pandemic.

But I guess some still believe our country is the greatest on earth.

I needed to rant.

[Nurselexii]

55 minutes ago, waufah said:

A friend of mine tested positive and they told him, there is no way to proof he got it from work so, they will not pay. Unlucky him,he just graduated in Dec 2019,first job as a nurse,so no PTO/FMLA. He has been out for three weeks without pay waiting for his second test to be negative. Unfortunately,he cant apply for unemployment because if he ever applies for US Citizenship they might deny him because he used public funds (he has been working and paying taxes for the last 15years).

Meanwhile, I have been in Ireland for 2 years,working and going to college. I had COVID-19 symptoms,waiting for test results anxiously in self isolation. I am still getting paid my full salary,without affecting my vacation hours and if my employer was to let me go for some reason I qualify for 350 Euros a week from the goverment during the pandemic.

But I guess some still believe our country is the greatest on earth.

I needed to rant.

I tried to work as a nurse in Ireland and couldn’t find work your so lucky to be able to work in us ans europe

[TriciaJ, RN]

On 3/29/2020 at 2:12 PM, DeeAngel said:

I’m hoping to see a mass exodus from the medical and nursing fields after this. Life is too short to work in healthcare.

Not sure I'm hoping for this, but it wouldn't surprise me. Nurses have put up with so much for so long I'm wondering if this is the straw that breaks the camel's back. One thing is certain: if nurses themselves don't push for better treatment when this is over, then nothing will change. Necessary changes (and respect!) will not be generated by management or the public. After a few public kudos and a few pizza parties, it will go back to business as usual if we let it.

[LibraSunCNM, BSN, MSN, CNM]

53 minutes ago, TriciaJ said:

Not sure I'm hoping for this, but it wouldn't surprise me. Nurses have put up with so much for so long I'm wondering if this is the straw that breaks the camel's back. One thing is certain: if nurses themselves don't push for better treatment when this is over, then nothing will change. Necessary changes (and respect!) will not be generated by management or the public. After a few public kudos and a few pizza parties, it will go back to business as usual if we let it.

I definitely foresee class action lawsuits. I also hope to see massive changes in mindset about healthcare and how it's delivered in this country, but only time will tell about that.

[toomuchbaloney]

I'm not certain that our American society is on a political pathway that is sympathetic to worker concerns or needs...even for health professionals.

[Nurse SMS, MSN, RN]

My company puts you out on PTO if you have symptoms and gets you tested within 24 hours with results in 2-4 hours after that. If the test is negative, you come back to work. If positive and you have had a known exposure at work, you get paid from a different bucket than your PTO. If you have no known work exposure, its your own PTO. If you don't have enough PTO or have not earned any yet, you are allowed to go into the negative in order to keep getting paid until you are well enough to return.

They have sourced childcare services just for our employees, some of which have been so excellent the kids don't want to go home when its time to. We have weekly Webex presentations on nutrition for stress, meditation for stress, sleeping when stressed etc. We have two different pathways to get counseling if you need it, at no charge to you. We have a virtual Town Hall every week with the C-Suite, Infection prevention, HR and other experts reviewing our numbers, our plan, what has changed, what we are doing in response to government recommendations versus CDC (because they are never the same) and then they spend an hour to an hour and a half just taking questions from everyone who has attended the Webex. They have video conferencing on so that we can see our leaders, who are in a room 6 feet apart.

I have been pretty impressed with my employer through this.