If you think you need to call the MD, CALL THE MD!!!!

Nurses Relations

Published

Decisions to call the MD need to be made on the basis of, "Does the MD need to be aware at this time. Does the patient need interventions that are not ordered? Tests that are not ordered?" And that decision needs to be made by the nurse caring for the patient. (With input from others if necessary, but the decision needs to be made by the nurse caring for the patient.)

Never on the basis of, "Will someone be mad at me for calling?"

So often I hear, "It's Dr. X on call, she's nice, go ahead and call." The only time the identity of the doc on call matters is if it's, "This MD wants to know this immediately, this one would rather hear when they make rounds."

If you're afraid of being yelled at for doing your job, GET OVER IT.

And don't let a coworker talk you out of calling if you feel a call should be made. I've worked on units where you're supposed to get the charge nurse's permission. Those units will throw YOU under the bus along with the charge nurse if things go south. You're the nurse. YOU have the letters after your name. Make the decision. Get input if needed. I'll often have new grads tell me they want to call, and after discussing the situation, we work out that it's "just ..." or something that doesn't actually need a call once we think it through together. But if you think you need to call, it's YOUR patient being cared for under YOUR license, which makes it YOUR decision.

Specializes in PDN; Burn; Phone triage.

Kind of off topic, but I get irritated by some of my fellow day shift nurses who I don't think have ever worked nights (or haven't for years) -- who don't realize that there are certain non-emergent issues that I'm not going to bring up with the doc at 3 AM. I got chewed out the other day because I mentioned in report that I'd gone back over a pt's records and he hadn't pooped in three or four days. (Everything else was normal. He was just on a lot of narcs.) So maybe she'd want to bring it up with the team that he needed some senna/miralax. Well, why didn't *I* call the doctor?? (I probably would have if it had been 8 PM instead of 4 AM when I realized the issue.)

Specializes in NICU.

It can go to the other end of the spectrum though...we've had nurses on my unit call the docs at 3am- "I wanted you to know that baby X's morning labs are normal." Personally I try to page (I work days) the docs if I need something that isn't emergent, but then 30 minutes later they still haven't returned my page, so I call them, "Oh, I didn't have my pager on today."

Specializes in Cardiac.

Well I guess the best way in this situation is to document the crap out of this, you need to protect YOUR license. It seems sometimes the doctors don't understand we also have a license to protect. We also have a doc that states we can't call him after 10 p.m. Are you kidding me?? It's a joke, thank God I work in a large teaching hospital because many times things happen in the middle of the night and I have to call the docs on call. I actually had a doctor yell at me once for paging him and I said, "hey I don't have to take this abuse I'm hanging up." I hung up and that person called back and apologized. I'm sorry but it's there job to answer pages, If they don't want to answer them when they are on call then maybe they should have picked a different career!

As a new grad I work in a large university teaching hospital. My interactions, mostly positive, have been solely with interns and residents as they are first in the chain of command to page. The great thing is that the services (transplant and several surgery services) common on our unit have residents in-house and often they're in the conference room on our unit. Patient needs a Tums at 0300 but no order? No problem. On the other hand, I've had a situation where the resident was reluctant to notify the attending of a significant change in mental status of a patient... Ultimately I got my charge nurse and RRT/stroke team involved, but at no time did I feel that contacting the attending myself would have been "okay."

Specializes in Nurse Manager, Labor and Delivery.

When I was first out of nursing school, I worked in a teaching hospital with residents (mostly first year interns) with med students in tow. I was in critical care at the time and for the most part enjoyed working with the "newbie" docs. It was a fast and furious ride there and they had to hit the ground running. Every now and again you would get the hot dog intern who thought he was all that and a piece of cake, and would try the don't call me for stupid stuff in the middle of the night thng. One particular night he pulled his ***** pants on good and tight and decided to scream at anyone who called him because he had a long day and was tired. Understanding that as a challenge, I proceeded to call him every 10-15 mins for things that were not so emergent but gave cause to chart "MD aware" in the medical record. After about the 5th call, he asked how long was I going to do this to him. I responded by saying "are you done being a jerk about being awakened?" In the morning before rounds he brought the nursing staff donuts and apologized for his behavior. Apparently he complained to the chief resident and a fellow intern about his night and how the nurses kept him up all night with calls. The chief (who had known us for a long time) told him DUDE, you have to respect the nurses. They will be invaluable to you. They take care of the patients, they will teach you about the patients, they will take care of you, they control your sleep. The sooner you realize it, the better. He became one of our favorites very quickly. He learned and learned well.

I work night shift medsurge and one doc told me, "why cant you nurses all call at once instead of at different times?!"-lol

One particular night he pulled his ***** pants on good and tight and decided to scream at anyone who called him because he had a long day and was tired. Understanding that as a challenge, I proceeded to call him every 10-15 mins for things that were not so emergent but gave cause to chart "MD aware" in the medical record.

Hehe, you're my kind of nurse! :)

This is what I don't get about the deciding whether or not to call based on if they'll be nice to you:

If you decide on borderline things to call the nice MD, you're punishing them for being nice.

If you decide on borderline things to NOT call the mean MD, you're rewarding them for being mean.

That's why I refuse to make that a factor in my decision. I absolutely refuse to reward bad behavior. Not to mention, if you're nice when I call, then you're likely one that will cover my butt when I choose to let you sleep. If you're the type that's going to yell at me for doing my job, then if I choose not to call, and it goes south, you're going to be in my manager's office telling them how incompetent I am for not calling.

Specializes in PDN; Burn; Phone triage.
I work night shift medsurge and one doc told me, "why cant you nurses all call at once instead of at different times?!"-lol

Aw. I work nights on a mixed burn unit (ICU, teli, floor) and we definitely do try to coordinate our calls. It's a small unit so that helps.

Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.

those of us who work in large teaching hospitals with mds in house all night are definitely lucky. i learned early (my first job was in a community hospital) to have all my ducks lined up when calling, and to have an idea what i expected as an outcome of the call. (had a resident tell me to "give 40 of lasix and call me in the morning" when i called about hypotension on a post-op patient. after an "um, are you sure that's what you want me to do, doctor?" he changed his mind.) anyone will get angry if pestered about inconsequential things at all hours; but most people response positively if you have all the information at your fingertips and are able to answer their questions intelligently.

This is what should happen, as much as possible. No reason for putting out the message to as manynurses as possible that you "are calling Dr. Smith, does anyone else need to talk to him?" It could save a few times of waking up the doc.

I agree. I am an LPN, recently just passed the NCLEX RN. I had a resident that went south. She was a DNR and the supervisior wanted to wait it out and let day shift deal with it. I ended up calling the MD and having the resident sent to the hospital for further eval. She was later admitted with respiratory failure.

There are some docs that are very rude and will say "And you called me because?" I just reply "Doc I called you because....needs...because..." and get my orders and go on my merry way.

Specializes in Trauma Surgery, Nursing Management.

Back in the day when I used to work on Med/Surg, I made good and sure that I had my crap in a pile when I called the doc in the middle of the night.

I remember one instance where my 50yo POD1 s/p hysterectomy pt did well through the night, but then started complaining of mild chest pain at 0430. Her sats were in the high 80s on RA, she couldn't describe exactly where her pain was, and said that she just felt "weird". I knew that women presented differently when having a mild MI, and that's what really raised the red flag for me.

My gut feeling was that she was having an MI, so I paged the resident on call. We went through the VS and she told me that she thought I was over reacting, and that the morning rounding team would assess her. She was quite snotty. I emphasized again that this pt was a healthy woman with no co-morbidities, and that the c/o chest pain concerned me along with her relatively low sat level, especially since she couldn't verbalize where the pain was coming from or describe the 'weird' feeling any further. The resident then yelled at me and started going through the whole "woe is me" soliloquy of how she had only one more hour to sleep until she had to be in surgery, she wasn't getting paid enough to deal with floor nurse's BS, she hadn't had a day off since 1945, and didn't I realize that she had to catch a plane to go to conference at the end of her long day in surgery?

I waited a few seconds before I responded to silently communicate to her how immature I thought she was acting. Then I said, "In that case, I'll just call your attending since you have such a difficult day ahead of you. My priority is the safety of my pt, not what your schedule entails for the next 24 hours." She replied, "Yeah, you do that." and hung up.

I paged the attending, he immediately came to the unit, assessed the pt and guess what? She WAS having an MI. After the dust settled, the resident walked out of the call room, bleary eyed and looking like a sad sack of rice only to have her attending dress her down in front of the ENTIRE rounding team. I was charting nearby and I overheard her tell her attending that I didn't give her correct information, and that my conversation with her wasn't one of urgency. I marched right up to the entire team and showed them the pt's VS, her description of symptoms, the time that I paged the resident, and the conversation that I had with the resident. She looked like a deer in the headlights. I will never forget how the attending told her that the nurses were employed SPECIFICALLY to monitor and report any abnormal findings to the resident on call, and that she should have gotten her butt out on the floor to assess this pt.

Later that week, the resident told me that she was just really tired and frustrated that night and apologized for her behavior. She added that she is glad that she is working with a nurse like me, because she knew that she could trust my judgement. Then she jokingly said, "I know if I get a page from you, that you will cover my backside and MAKE me get up if I am needed." I pointedly looked at her and said firmly, "You know, Dr. S., it is above my paygrade to MAKE you get up. Your priority should be to the pts under your care while you are on call. I am not here to cover your backside. I am here to ensure that my pt's are well taken care of. If you have too much on your plate and can't take call, then perhaps you should let your program director know, because it seems to me that your priority is YOU."

Oddly enough, this resident and I became good friends after this. I felt like a witch when I told her that she should examine her priorities, because I KNOW that she was tired, had a lot on her plate and was exhausted. However, I wanted to drive home the fact that she was obligated to answer pages and deal with issues while she was on call...that's part of being a resident. Every resident before her understood this, and every resident after her will understand this.

She "got it" and she changed her perspective. Sometimes it takes a swift kick in the pants...

+ Add a Comment