First, I do not want to challenge nurses with several years of clinical experience that are ADN or diploma trained nurses or those nurses that graduated recently with a ADN, and I do not want to challenge anyone by saying that there is a difference between the ADN versus the BSN prepared nurse.
There is a push for all nurses to be BSN prepared or for ADNs to achieve their BSN; however, there is no increase in wages for the majority of those with their BSN or those going from an ADN to a BSN. I find that as a workforce, we do not understand our worth. Why do we need the BSN as it costs more and it has no pay benefits. Students that have an ADN from a community college have less student loans, and they make the same a student that has a BSN; however, the BSN student has increased student debt with no increased monetary income to show for their degree.
I challenge the nursing workforce to acknowledge our value as a profession, and demand an increase in pay if we are to have a BSN. The current yearly income of a nurse is based on the costs of an ADN level of education; however, it does not match the cost of a BSN cost of education. If I am required or it is preferred that I have my BSN, I need to be paid accordingly. I do not practice nursing strictly for the income, but I do appreciate putting a dollar value on the work I do.
In our practice we have two people with almost identical job descriptions, performing almost identical tasks, one while supervising administrative staff and admin end of the business, one while supervising MAs and clinical aspects of the business. The former is titled "administrative supervisor" and the latter is titled "Nursing supervisor," the second individual being a RN. Both of them report to the practice manager. The individual on the administrative end is irate that the BSN nurse makes $11,000 a year more than she does, when they have the same core responsibilities. The difference is that the admin person has an associaittes degree in business. The RN has a baccalaureate degree (in Nursing, obviously). In other words, one of them is a college graduate and one is not. It puzzles me why the admin sup. fails to see this very clear distinction. If she were an ADN nurse, she would be in the same boat. I haven't read all elevnty mellion pages of this, but I agree with the OP, that BSN nurses should be paid more by virtue of the fact that they have a college degree. It is that simple. Want to make more money? Get a degree. Don't care enough to bother? No problem. I do think BSN should be the minimum education for entry, but as that is unlikely to happen, I'm not obsessing over it. It should have happened a long time ago. Nursing probably blew it, and never will fully professionalize. And that's really too bad.
AAAAAAAAAND this should close the thread, because it's SO. RIGHT. ON.
If only it worked that way. Despite having practiced as a nurse in two countries, four states as a staff nurses, and 3 or 4 others as a traveler, the ONLY place I have heard of a nurse with a BSN being paid differently than an ADN doing the same job is here on AN. Except for posters here I don't actually know anyone who works in a place where nurses doing the same job get paid more or less than their coworkers because of a degree.
Yes, unfortunately I think you are correct. While it works as a general rule of thumb it has not been consistently true in Nursing, which as I've said, is quite a pity and to the detriment of the profession.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
Yes, unfortunately I think you are correct. While it works as a general rule of thumb it has not been consistently true in Nursing, which as I've said, is quite a pity and to the detriment of the profession.
I am of two minds on the subject of nurses getting paid more for a BSN vs a nurse doing the same job with an ADN.
At first it seems like a pay raise would be a good motivator for ADN nurses to go back to school and make their investment worthwhile. "Why should I? I won't make any more money" is a very common reason heard for not going back to school to get a bachelors degree.
OTOH I think paying more for a degree will only hinder the cause of making the BSN standard for RNs. What advocates of BSN for RN practice should be advocating for is the well trodden path of grandfathering in all the diploma and ADN RNs.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
The national data has shown a 6-10% differential for the past decade or so.
I know it does. I just have never seen it and don't personally know any nurses who get paid more for their degree. I get paid more for having certification.
For all the talk about other countries and nursing education,I just found out that Filipino nurses go to school for three years and then they get a Bsn.
Meanwhile,most Adn nurses actually spent 3 years in school.
The national data has shown a 6-10% differential for the past decade or so.
I think you might be misstating the evidence there. Surveys do show a (uncorrected) difference of about 8% in ADN and BSN salaries, although they don't actually show that BSN nurses make more because they have a BSN. We already know BSN Nurses work predominately in urban areas, and ADN Nurses work predominately in rural areas. Due to the higher cost of living where BSN's tend to work, they do tend to get an adjustment for cost of living, not necessarily for their BSN. BSN nurses also include managers and other positions that aren't apples to apples comparisons which would suggest that for doing the same job under the same circumstances, BSN's make more.
There's really no evidence to suggest that ADN Nurses would get the additional money (that comes with a higher cost of living or a totally different job without moving geographically or into management/corporate jobs) by obtaining a BSN.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
For all the talk about other countries and nursing education,I just found out that Filipino nurses go to school for three years and then they get a Bsn.
Meanwhile,most Adn nurses actually spent 3 years in school.
That is actually pretty common among countries who require a BSN. New Zealand requires a BSN. They have a 3 year BSN program. US nursing education is considered on a case by case basis. I was able to obtain a NZ license after they reviewed my ADN program.
I think you might be misstating the evidence there. Surveys do show a (uncorrected) difference of about 8% in ADN and BSN salaries, although they don't actually show that BSN nurses make more because they have a BSN.
I simply stated the aggregate raw data; can you explain how it is misstated? Nurses holding a BSN make, in aggregate, 6-10% more per year than nurses holding an ADN. I did not draw an conclusions from it, just stated the raw data. If you want to discuss the implications of the data I would be happy to.
We already know BSN Nurses work predominately in urban areas, and ADN Nurses work predominately in rural areas. Due to the higher cost of living where BSN's tend to work, they do tend to get an adjustment for cost of living, not necessarily for their BSN.
See this, to me, is a misstatement. Here is what the data shows as far as I have seen. The split between BSN/ADN in urban areas is 45/55 while the split in rural areas is 30/70. The predominant degree in both cases is associates. We know that 81% of nurses work in urban areas so the predominant locale for employment is urban. We also know that 20% of nurses living in rural areas commute to urban areas for work. We also know that the ratio in employment in hospitals vs out-patient settings is higher in urban setting vs rural settings. There is also the issue of experience and certification, both of which are associated with salary differences, which I would assume at significantly different between urban and rural settings (though I don't have the data on-hand). There are a number of factors here that muddy the argument about "cost of living".
In fact, some interesting data from 2000 shows that where a nurse works (urban vs rural) is less of a factor than where a nurse lives (urban vs rural).
BSN nurses also include managers and other positions that aren't apples to apples comparisons which would suggest that for doing the same job under the same circumstances, BSN's make more.
The data does include more than just bedside nurses and is not a direct comparison of degree in the same role, I agree with you. The other side of this argument is that BSN-prepared nurses have more options for career advancement leading to higher average salary, which I would assume you also agree with.
There's really no evidence to suggest that ADN Nurses would get the additional money (that comes with a higher cost of living or a totally different job without moving geographically or into management/corporate jobs) by obtaining a BSN.
There is, however, evidence that by obtaining a BSN they have the potential to earn additional money. From my perspective it is very difficult to take any sort of aggregate data, even from a well designed and controlled study, and apply it directly to an individual.
I would guess that if we were to conduct a strictly controlled study on degree (BSN vs ADN) holding experience, certification, locale, setting constant there would not be a significant difference at this time. This does not say anything about the future; in earnest, do you think that new-grad ADNs have the same opportunities as new-grad BSNs? Do you think that they will continue to?
Again, I do not have a horse in this race. I am not biased one way or the other as it really does not pertain to me other than an academic interest.
I did it without a BSN as I didn't obtain a BSN until after I got my current job and do not get paid more as a result of having a BSN. Nor was obtaining a BSN a requirement of my job. My employer has very generous education benefits but I could have taken advantage of them regardless of what I wanted to study. They would have paid for a music degree is that is what I wanted to study.
The dog I have is the people I work with. I believe that the ADN programs bring a diversity to nursing that makes us unique from the other people we work with in the hospital, and is a strength we have that is not enjoyed by the other professions.
I am already in the 90th percentile for nurses pay according to the BLS.
I believe that the ADN programs bring a diversity to nursing that makes us unique from the other people we work with in the hospital, and is a strength we have that is not enjoyed by the other professions.
You have told us several times how accomplished you and are how much money you make; I have asked before and I haven't got an answer: do you think you and your job/pay is typical for ADN graduates nationwide? Do you think nationwide that new ADN graduates will get the same opportunities you got in the past?
I fail to see the logic on your second statement. Do you think the diversity would somehow be lost by the addition of a few credits to make the conferred degree a BSN instead of an ADN?
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
You have told us several times how accomplished you and are how much money you make;
Any I have told you in the past that it's not about me. I only serve as an example and there are many, many more like me in similar positions.
I have asked before and I haven't got an answer: do you think you and your job/pay is typical for ADN graduates nationwide?
Uh, no wonder you haven't received an answer before. What a ridiculous question.
Do you think nationwide that new ADN graduates will get the same opportunities you got in the past?
Any of them could. I have outlined great opportunities for other ADN RNs here on AN many times.
I fail to see the logic on your second statement. Do you think the diversity would somehow be lost by the addition of a few credits to make the conferred degree a BSN instead of an ADN?
Obviously it's not the addition of a few credits that would (I believe) result in a lack of diversity.
mclennan, BSN, RN
684 Posts
AAAAAAAAAND this should close the thread, because it's SO. RIGHT. ON.