I am watching Michael Moore's "Sicko" for the first time....

[Valerie Salva]

And I am just blown away. I am incredulous.

I have felt for a while that we should have universal health care here in the US, but I didn't know things were this bad. We really should be ashamed that GTMO Bay prisoners get free (and very good quality, from the looks of it) health care and 9/11 rescue workers are suffering from 9/11 related health conditions and have no coverage.

And hospitals removing their names from the pt bracelets of ill, unisured pts, and having cabs drop them on Skid Row?

And insurance company physicians admitting that they know they caused the death of pts by denying claims in order to save the ins company money?

What is the matter with us that our health care system is ranked #37 among industrialized nations?

To me, this is not about politics, not about personal responsibility, it's not about cost- it's just about what is right and what is wrong.

I know the Canadian and other universal health care systems have their problems, but they are not run on a foundation of greed and denial of care as ours is.

I am very fortunate that I have good health insurance, but this could change at any time. I am willing to pay more taxes so that all US citizens can get free or low-cost health care that is not connected with a job, and can move with the citizen and cover them wherever they are and whatever their circumstances are.

Are you?

What do you think?

[Honnête et Sérieux]

I will agree to disagree.

As for Canadians having to wait, I'd rather wait a little than have to go bankrupt.

Canadians are experiencing medical bankruptcy as well. A UHC system has not stopped that.

And I'd rather go bankrupt than die waiting.

[XB9S, BSN, MSN, EdD, RN, APN]

Some current information about UK healthcare waiting times and standards

The National Cancer Plan was published in September 2000. Within the Plan there are a number of committments and targets relating to waiting times for treatment. This document provides answers to frequently asked questions about the 2001, 2002 and 2005 Cancer Plan targets.

These targets include:

• Maximum one month wait from urgent GP referral for suspected cancer to first definitive treatment for children's, testicular cancers and acute leukaemia by 2001
  
• Maximum one month from diagnosis (DECISION TO TREAT DATE) to first definitive treatment for breast cancer by 2001
  
• Maximum two month wait from urgent GP referral for suspected cancer to first definitive treatment for breast cancer by 2002
  
• Maximum two month wait from urgent GP referral for suspected cancer to first definitive treatment for all cancers by 2005 (62 day target)
  
• Maximum one month wait from diagnosis (DECISION TO TREAT DATE) to first definitive treatment for all cancers by 2005 (31 day target)
  

In addition there is also the existing two week waiting time standard:

• Maximum two week wait for an urgent GP referral for suspected cancer to date first seen for all suspected cancers.

http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Publications/PublicationsPolicyAndGuidance/DH_4116412

Here is the actual up to date figures of compliance with these targets

http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Statistics/Performancedataandstatistics/18WeeksReferraltoTreatmentstatistics/index.htm

[Honnête et Sérieux]

I didn't ignore your link but it is outdated information,

If you take a look at the references used for this site,

referance 1 - "Recent Cancer Survival in Europe: A 2000-02 Period Analysis of EUROCARE-4 Data," Lancet Oncology, Vol. 8, No. 9, September 2007, pages 784 - 796.

hardly up to date information, "a 2000 - 2002 period analysis"

Reference 6, from which your claim that cancer patients wait a year for radiological treatment

Note the bolded reference, dated 2005. These figures are out of date by 4 years, great progress has been made in those 4 years.

Not ignored, merely pointed out more up to date information

I'm sorry, but where is this supposed more up-to-date information?

This was just published this week; do you think they ignored available references that were more up-to-date?

[VivaLasViejas, ASN, RN]

Uh, yeah, it doesn't...because you are the only one to introduce these connections. No one but you has made these insulting, irrelevant, and pointless generalizations.

I could just as easily make lame and insulting generalizations about advocates of socialized medicine, but it would be no more productive as your false generalizations about people who are not fans of Canadian/European style healthcare.

It's nice when folks can make their point somewhere other than the extreme end of the spectrum. No one has said that it's the "end of America as we know it." I will submit that a socialized system is not necessarily better for us as a country.

Sheesh........sorry, I forgot that some people don't know sarcasm when they see it. Mea culpa.

[Honnête et Sérieux]

Sheesh........sorry, I forgot that some people don't know sarcasm when they see it. Mea culpa.

Most do know it when they see it, but it doesn't mean it's not insulting.

Unless you are saying we can insult people as long as we are sarcastic about it.

[LaughingRN]

Target times are target times.

Not actual times.

They were created for the public because the huge current and ongoing problem, and of course they sound reasonable. Target times are still not being met. At least in my country. In my city the target time for a CT- for reasons such as diagnosing a mass is 12 weeks from referral. The actual time is 47 weeks. This is current as of two weeks ago. I know this because it is my personal story

[flightnurse2b, LPN]

this movie is amazing. i've seen it several times. i wish people would stop saying "oh michael moore is a bias liberal"... open your eyes. it's the truth.

i know as a paramedic i've had to divert from a hospital that did not take a certain type of insurance. when i've worked triage i've had to say "sorry, you're out of network and need to drive 40 mins to xyz hospital if you want them to pay the bill." i've had to discharge a patient from the hospital who cried and said "i have no where to go". my father is a 9/11 survivor also who is not oxygen dependent and has been denied for most health insurance plans. and most recently, i've spent over a months pay to get insurance for just 2 months of coverage because i'm pregnant.

it's a pure sin we can't take care of our own in this country.

and it's chalked up to pure greed.

michael moore did a wonderful job with this movie.

[leadesign]

I won't name names but somebody needs a hug Dude.

[Honnête et Sérieux]

this movie is amazing. i've seen it several times. i wish people would stop saying "oh michael moore is a bias liberal"... open your eyes. it's the truth.

i know as a paramedic i've had to divert from a hospital that did not take a certain type of insurance. when i've worked triage i've had to say "sorry, you're out of network and need to drive 40 mins to xyz hospital if you want them to pay the bill." i've had to discharge a patient from the hospital who cried and said "i have no where to go". my father is a 9/11 survivor also who is not oxygen dependent and has been denied for most health insurance plans. and most recently, i've spent over a months pay to get insurance for just 2 months of coverage because i'm pregnant.

it's a pure sin we can't take care of our own in this country.

and it's chalked up to pure greed.

michael moore did a wonderful job with this movie.

And Tony Scott did a great job with True Romance, but it's still fiction.

[flightnurse2b, LPN]

And Tony Scott did a great job with True Romance, but it's still fiction.

how is it fiction when i just verified alot of the things he put into that movie from my own personal life experience as a nurse/paramedic/patient???

i'm not even going to argue with you because obviously won't ever get it. if you can watch that movie and not remotely become disgusted with the health care system in america, then i don't know what to tell you.

[VivaLasViejas, ASN, RN]

I've never seen the movie. I don't want to. And I don't need to in order to be disgusted with our "system"..........that's been going on for a LONG time.

[Atheos]

Everyone calls Michael Moore a liar.

Of course, the ones yelling liar are the ones supporting those he's calling out.

Hmmm.....