I want to know what nurses think about socialized medicine.

GCTMT · Jun 23, 2009

I stand corrected Saarein. It was 1826, not 1825, and Carroll was the last founder to die. Doesn't really change my argument though.

It's not a holy document. Of course, you are welcome to hold it in whatever esteem you wish, just like I am free to say that I think basing ones argument, on a document that was written over 200 years ago is intellectually lazy. The point is, it's a different world and I think we should quit "running home to mama", so to speak, everytime we are asked to define what we should or should not do in regards to health care.

People from all sides of the political spectrum have used the Constitution to defend their arguments, how about we think for ourselves and realize that just because something isn't explicitly written in the Constitution, doesn't mean we can't discuss it.

Katnip, RN · Jun 23, 2009

Yawn. Show me all these kids dying because they were denied life saving procedures? What ones receiving their third heart lung transplant perhaps.

I know of two cases personally. They both did happen some time ago. First was in Portland, Oregon with a 25 month old with leukemia. The usual treatments weren't helping the toddler, doctors suggested bone marrow transplant. Insurance denied them, the hospital required the money up front. At the time it was $250K. The families held fundraisers, unfortunately they couldn't scrape up the money and the toddler died.

Northern Virginia. Early 90s. Same situation. A 4-year-old daugheter of our friend. Same deal. Insurance denied, family couldn't scrape up the money in time. Little girl died.

And surely you'd heard of other people who have lost their lives because insurance refuses to pay. It's been in the news. Or perhaps you choose not to believe them.

Sorry but people die because of lack of medical care, insured or not. Don't believe it that only countries with UHC have long waiting lists for elective procedures, either.

allnurses Guide · Jun 24, 2009

Yawn. Show me all these kids dying because they were denied life saving procedures? What ones receiving their third heart lung transplant perhaps.

Sorry, just saw this. I didn't realize children dying for lack of insurance was boring.

Here's one I know personally:

http://carlanddawn.blogspot.com/2009/02/laith-dougherty-this-baby-needs-heart.html

http://laithdougherty.info/

First heart transplant required. If you think it's ok for that baby to die because his insurance cap has been reached, then... okaaay. And so what if it WAS his third heart-lung transplant? Does that mean it's okay not to pay? :down:

wowza · Jun 24, 2009

It's not a holy document. Of course, you are welcome to hold it in whatever esteem you wish, just like I am free to say that I think basing ones argument, on a document that was written over 200 years ago is intellectually lazy. The point is, it's a different world and I think we should quit "running home to mama", so to speak, everytime we are asked to define what we should or should not do in regards to health care.
People from all sides of the political spectrum have used the Constitution to defend their arguments, how about we think for ourselves and realize that just because something isn't explicitly written in the Constitution, doesn't mean we can't discuss it.

Intellectually lazy. ad hominem. Irony

wowza · Jun 24, 2009

[the constitution is] not a holy document. Of course, you are welcome to hold it in whatever esteem you wish, just like I am free to say that I think basing ones argument, on a document that was written over 200 years ago is intellectually lazy. The point is, it's a different world and I think we should quit "running home to mama", so to speak, everytime we are asked to define what we should or should not do in regards to health care.
People from all sides of the political spectrum have used the Constitution to defend their arguments, how about we think for ourselves and realize that just because something isn't explicitly written in the Constitution, doesn't mean we can't discuss it.

Anything that doesn't conform to the standards of the constitution is immediately null and void. Period. No discussion. The constitution isthe end all be all as the law and this country are concerned... and there is good reason for that.

Not explicitly discussed in the constitution? No problem discuss on. But when an idea seems contrary to the constitution how can discussion about the constitution be avoided?

oslogirl · Jun 25, 2009

Just because you don't know one single person does not mean there are not some. I've seen many many people who are frustrated with the system in Canada and come to the US for care.
steph

Hi. Did you misread her post?That is what she said.

allnurses Guide · Jun 26, 2009

here's the bottom line, and in my opinion, really the only thing you need to say about this topic.
i do not know one single person who comes from a country with universal healthcare who would trade it for the us system.
there are pros and cons as with everything in life, but overall, the vast majority of people have better access to care. doctors make plenty of money. yes, we pay taxes/tax levy, but we don't have "copay", "out of pocket", "deductible" etc et cetc... i am definitely worse off in terms of my income/tax/healthcare costs in the us than in australia.
it is a basic human right to have access to healthcare regardless of income.

my impression is that she does not know one single person who would trade uhc for the us system.

but just because she doesn't know some, doesn't mean there aren't some who would trade uhc for the us system. and some who come to the us for care because they are not satisfied with their system.

in my health care econ class last night we have a student from poland who says their health care system is terrible, they are overtaxed and the system is run by the government. she gave examples of her own mom and the mess of her experience with an illness and not being able to be seen for 5 months.

there are people in countries with uhc who do not like it.

that is all i was saying.

steph

allnurses Guide · Jun 26, 2009

Sorry for the overlap - I'm putting this on all the UHC threads. This is my favorite part - but the entire show is on the bottom link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpsEAVbCkMM

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=john+stossel+sick+in+america&search_type=&aq=8&oq=john+stossel+

c_beshore_rn · Jun 26, 2009

i stole this from another thread. i wrote it and i think it applies here too.

registered user

age: 33

years exp: 10 as lpn 3 as rn

nursing specialty: psych, ltc, m/s, supervisor, mrdd,

received 59 kudos from 26 posts

join date: may 2009

posts: 60 jun 24, 2009, 09:59 pm

re: obama's health plan takes shape

i think what president obama wants to do is make healthcare accessible to all americans. this means: everyone! rich, poor, middle-class, etc. most of the poverty stricken americans have better access to healthcare then us hard workin middle class folks. most of the people living below the poverty level in the usa can access healthcare and their are programs to help them like medicaid. larger citied have non-profit organizations that help them get meds, free clinic visits, etc. these people your so afraid of supporting are already being supported by you, me, and all other tax payers....that will not change! what the prez is trying to do is cover the rest of us. the healthy wealthy person is already set up, the poor medicaid recipient is already set up....what he's trying to do is fill in the gaps!!!

newsflash:

you can live a healthy lifestyle, work hard everyday for your family and their health insurance, and still be left without insurance if you were unable to work due to disability from accident of disease!!

example: you can be the epitome of physical health...get in an accident and boom!!!---your unable to work due to a fx pelvis, head injury, c-spine fx with paralysis...whatever, you get the point...lets say you exhaust all your fmla, short-term disability, etc and you have to cobra out on your insurance through your former employer at about... 1,000/month(much cheaper now since obama agreed to pay 60%, but still expensive!). you have to do this because all your injuries are "pre-existing" so u dare not lose the insurance you have!!! your short-term disability is running out, your depleting your savings account, etc.

due to the loss of your job and $175,000/yr salary, you get behind on mortgage, car, blah, blah, blah. you've exhausted savings and are now faced with losing your cobra because it'll only cover you for 1-2 years and you still need 2 more operations and extensive pt before your able to return to work, if you ever do return to work. :crying2:so there you are!!! unable to work, unable to get better, losing your assets, exhausting all options!!! wouldn't it have been nice to have a health insurance plan that wouldn't have demanded all your savings and covered you with your big salary or without????? now, after all this you will probably qualify for medicaid.....does this make you a "leech on society" or another victim of our flawed healthcare system???

allnurses Guide · Jun 26, 2009

i stole this from another thread. i wrote it and i think it applies here too.
registered user
age: 33
years exp: 10 as lpn 3 as rn
nursing specialty: psych, ltc, m/s, supervisor, mrdd,
received 59 kudos from 26 posts
join date: may 2009
posts: 60 jun 24, 2009, 09:59 pm
re: obama's health plan takes shape
i think what president obama wants to do is make healthcare accessible to all americans. this means: everyone! rich, poor, middle-class, etc. most of the poverty stricken americans have better access to healthcare then us hard workin middle class folks. most of the people living below the poverty level in the usa can access healthcare and their are programs to help them like medicaid. larger citied have non-profit organizations that help them get meds, free clinic visits, etc. these people your so afraid of supporting are already being supported by you, me, and all other tax payers....that will not change! what the prez is trying to do is cover the rest of us. the healthy wealthy person is already set up, the poor medicaid recipient is already set up....what he's trying to do is fill in the gaps!!!
newsflash:
you can live a healthy lifestyle, work hard everyday for your family and their health insurance, and still be left without insurance if you were unable to work due to disability from accident of disease!!
example: you can be the epitome of physical health...get in an accident and boom!!!---your unable to work due to a fx pelvis, head injury, c-spine fx with paralysis...whatever, you get the point...lets say you exhaust all your fmla, short-term disability, etc and you have to cobra out on your insurance through your former employer at about... 1,000/month(much cheaper now since obama agreed to pay 60%, but still expensive!). you have to do this because all your injuries are "pre-existing" so u dare not lose the insurance you have!!! your short-term disability is running out, your depleting your savings account, etc.
due to the loss of your job and $175,000/yr salary, you get behind on mortgage, car, blah, blah, blah. you've exhausted savings and are now faced with losing your cobra because it'll only cover you for 1-2 years and you still need 2 more operations and extensive pt before your able to return to work, if you ever do return to work. :crying2:so there you are!!! unable to work, unable to get better, losing your assets, exhausting all options!!! wouldn't it have been nice to have a health insurance plan that wouldn't have demanded all your savings and covered you with your big salary or without????? now, after all this you will probably qualify for medicaid.....does this make you a "leech on society" or another victim of our flawed healthcare system???

no one is saying there are not problems. what we are saying is that we think having the government in charge will make things worse. we are disagreeing on the solutions.

my husband is a private contractor with metabolic syndrome. i'm a rn to bsn student and work part-time in hospice. we have no medical insurance right now. we paid cobra for awhile but it got too costly.

i agree there are problems - but i don't agree that obama's plan with solve them.

steph

nicurn001 · Jun 26, 2009

No one is saying there are not problems. What we are saying is that we think having the government in charge will make things worse. We are disagreeing on the solutions.
My husband is a private contractor with Metabolic Syndrome. I'm a RN to BSN student and work part-time in Hospice. We have no medical insurance right now. We paid COBRA for awhile but it got too costly.
I agree there are problems - but I don't agree that Obama's plan with solve them.
steph

I'll take the approach , of the anti UHC crowd .

Shock , Horror , you are not providing health insurance for yourselves because you have other priorities for where your income goes .So when one of the possible complications of Metabolic Syndrome strikes , makes a visit to the ER unavoidable , you expect us to pick up the tab for your poor choice , NO WAY ,no how !!!.Also don't expect any help from us , if you try to meet , your financial obligations and go bankrupt .

I on the other hand realise that even those of us who have health insurance , who take good care of ourselves , in the present system are often one major health crisis away from bankrupcy .This present system will not only bankrupt the individual , but it will also bankrupt industry and eventually the country .

So it would be nice if people who agree there is a problem , come up with a new viable solution , rather than write off a system ,UHC , which although it has some detractors in the countries it is used in ( never possible to please everyone ), but given the choice of using their UHC or US financing system of healthcare , show at least through opinion polls in their countries they will stick to UHC.

HM2VikingRN, RN · Jun 27, 2009

I think that I would trust the work of the Commonwealth Fund for accurate information about UHC over the work of John Stossel.