I did something stupid... no, embarrassing and stupid

Nurses General Nursing

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Okay, first I want to make it clear that this is not a thread about religion. Please, let's not discuss our personal views of religion, that isn't my topic.

Here is my problem. I have two patients, D and J. D and J (I'm serious here folks) share the same biological mother and they share the same husband. D is preggers with her 17th child and J is preggers with her 14th child. There are several other wives to this gentleman but they aren't my patients.

Today I was talking to the MD office getting some orders (home infusion co,) and although the topic was J I mentioned something I needed for D as well. The woman on the phone acted confused and I was trying to explain their relationship tactfully. I started to say that D was going to borrow something from her ... frie... sist... umm... suddenly I drew a total blank at how they would refer to one another. I finally blurted out "co-wives!" Oh geez, what an idiot I am. The stuttering and stammering on my part was not intentional, I was actually looking for a respectful term and I wasn't coming up with anything and the more I stammered trying to find the right term the more it looked like I was looking for a smart remark or insulting term. It felt like this went on for a long time but it was really just seconds. The more I realized what a butt I was making of myself the more I stuttered and couldn't come up with a word.

Finally the woman on the phone kindly reminded me that we are all women and they are just like me. Just women. She did think I was trying to come up with an insulting remark. She was also tactfully telling me that she is also one of many wives to the same husband.

I just came clean with her. I said look, I don't know how I am going to get out of this one other than to apologize. I was trying to come up with a respectful term and I drew a blank. I am so very sorry. She laughed and told me she was used to this. I did explain that I just froze and nothing bright was coming to mind. I really was looking for a respectful term.

She laughed and said not to worry, she believed me. But she just asked me one question, would I please just promise her one thing. I said sure, what is it? She asked that I not believe everything I see and hear in the media. She said it just isn't like the media makes this out to be.

A little history. I live in Arizona and there are parts of AZ that have Mormons that believe in this lifestyle. There has been a great deal of media coverage on this and the are blasting these folks. I really don't know much about this lifestyle but today I realized I need to learn about it.

I am in serious need of a lesson in culture here. I point blank admitted this to the woman on the phone. She said she would see what she could find. I was looking for something to read and understand their point of view. She said she would do some checking and let me know.

A couple of hours later she called me and said that she came up with.. nothing. They are extremely private people and they just don't talk about their world much and they don't write about it. She asked around and pondered this since our previous conversation and she wasn't able to come up with anything.

I asked if I could ask a question and she said sure, go for it. I asked my question and she answered from her point of view.

This makes me realize, I don't want to be in that position again. I want to learn more about this but I don't know how. I want to be respectful of my patients but I'm at a loss as to how to do this.

Any suggestions for some good reading? A place where my questions will be answered? The more I understand their ways of living and thinking the better I can do for my two patients.

Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. And does anyone have any similar experiences?

Is polygamy legal in the US? Also, anyone have info about how it affects the children?

I have to admit, my problem/issue/whatever you want to call it is that my tax dollars go toward this and my honest and sincere efforts with their healthcare and yet I'm one of the 'beasts' they refer to when they talk about bleeding the beast.

My only disagreement with their lifestyle is regarding the children. Otherwise as several here have said... what consenting adults do behind closed doors really *is* their business. Kids... that's a whole new ballgame.

I know...it IS about the kids :crying2: ...and that is why they can continue to breed and breed...you can't stop helping the children who are being made to pay "for the sins of the father"(literally in this case!)

Specializes in Me Surge.

Of coorifice they are. Maybe my information is not accurate, But many of these men DO NOT WORK. They have several wives, all of whom are collecting welfare benefits for a dozen kids. why should they work, they've got plenty of dough rolling in. I work two jobs. 16 sometimes 20 hours a day. I don't really care if these people have multiple marriages; But I AND THOSE OF US WHO WORK SHOULD NOT HAVE TO SUPPORT THEM. I do commend you Azmichelle for being so culturally semsitive, and you realy did not do anything wrong. Oh yeah, and in a few few days I be mailing a fat check $4000 to the IRS, because apparantly the thousands in taxes I've paid this year wasn't enough.

Of coorifice they are. Maybe my information is not accurate, But many of these men DO NOT WORK. They have several wives, all of whom are collecting welfare benefits for a dozen kids. why should they work, they've got plenty of dough rolling in. I work two jobs. 16 sometimes 20 hours a day. I don't really care if these people have multiple marriages; But I AND THOSE OF US WHO WORK SHOULD NOT HAVE TO SUPPORT THEM. I do commend you Azmichelle for being so culturally semsitive, and you realy did not do anything wrong. Oh yeah, and in a few few days I be mailing a fat check $4000 to the IRS, because apparantly the thousands in taxes I've paid this year wasn't enough.

I've heard that a mother can only collect welfare benefits on a max. of 3 children. Does anyone know if this is true? Is there a cut-off for food stamps as well?

This whole "bleeding the beast" thing has really frosted my cookies too. :angryfire

I don't understand how *anyone* running for political office in Arizona can get by with not having these polygamy/child abuse/welfare issues as part of his/her political platform!

I think that you came up with a good term, that was not insulting or degrading, and that you did it quickly and under pressure. This is an example of the unexpected situations that nursing can thrust us into. The person you were speaking to did not take offense to what you said and even if she had then she could have supplied a term that she preferred. In nursing we have to ask questions about sex, drug use, bowel pattern, we do not have to and cannot come up with euphamisms.

something from her ... frie... sist... umm... suddenly I drew a total blank at how they would refer to one another. I finally blurted out "co-wives!" Oh geez, what an idiot I am. The stuttering and stammering on my part was not intentional, I was actually looking for a respectful term and I wasn't

I am in serious need of a lesson in culture here. I point blank admitted this to the woman on the phone. She said she would see what she could find. I was looking for something to read and understand their point of view. She said she would do some checking and let me know.

I'm in NYC, and have never been in this situation. However, on a TV documentary on this topic several years ago, I did hear one plural wife refer to another plural wife as her "sister wife". Perhaps this would be a term you could use? Here, we call people in alternative relationships "domestic partners", "life partners" or "significant others." However, the "domestic partner" and "life partner" designations are usually reserved for same gender relationships.

Susan in NYC

AZMichelle

I don't think that there is a tactile term for the situtation. "Co-wives" seems to be a good one to me. I do not know about Arizona, but in in most states Polygamy is illegal; and as for religion --Mormons - The Church of Jesus Christ and the Latter Day Saints abolished Polygamy when it became illegal. Anyone in their church that is caught practicing it is excommunicated immediately. I, personally, find it a form of exploitation to women.

A branch of this sect/cult is in Bountiful, British Columbia. They were on the news last night explaining that they do not exploit women. Yup, marrying your daughter off at 14 is an instrisic part of Canadian Culture. Mismanaging your educational funding is normal and so is running off your teenage sons....

I know. Actually since she was clearly open to educating me I asked if I could ask a question. I asked about the little girls. I said what little I know about this is that little adolescent girls are taken from their family and married off to old men. Was that true?

She claims that although it is true the girls are not forced to do this against their will. It is with their full permission.

Can a 14 year old little girl make that kind of decision?

I don't know, religion issues concern me. My bottom line is that I am going to be dealing with these folks more and more and I really need an education here. The gal I spoke to today suggested I take a trip and see for myself. I'm very tempted to do just that however I've never been good at keeping my thoughts and opinions to myself. If I see something I feel is dead wrong... well, you know.

I don't understand one mega issue. If these folks were in downtown Phoenix all the adults would be in jail and the children in foster care. I don't understand why it is permitted to marry these little girls off to older men just because they are in Colorado City. There is so much I don't understand.

My request to learn more really is sincere. I need to learn more about their culture so I don't offend by mistake.

These girls are basically brainwashed into this type of lifestyle from early childhood. How else could you explain this ? No 14 year old year in a healthy mental state would throw their childhood and youth away to share a bed and life with numerous other women and become the breeding cow for some religious fanatic/sex maniac. Using religion as an excuse to commit such acts is repulsive. It is a form of slavery.

the most disgusting thing i ever saw was a thing on tv about a plural family in which the 'father' was explaining that he named all children born in the same year with the same first initial...and then they showed him sitting on his fat behind while a group of daughters sang about how much they loved him

and muggy...the term 'indian giver' came from the way the federal government gave land to various tribes 'forever' and then if gold was discovered or white settlers wanted the land for farming or ranching then forever ended real quick

A good book to read is "Under the Banner of Heaven" - goes into the history of the LDS church (even though officaly these plural marriage sects are not recognized as a part of the church), it's culture, dogma, and leadership. I find it helpful in my work setting, most of my co workers are LDS and very religious. Just be careful - a lto fo them hate the book and I "mysteriously" have copies of the book of Mormon on my chair some days.

I have a very dear friend who did rural health care nursing for these plural wife families. Her philiosohpy - children and women need care iregardless of their lifestyle. You can't judge. She loved her job. They respected her. Kids got good health care.

I sincerely believe people know when they're being talked down to or insulted. This woman knew the term co-wife was not deragatory esp when she couldn't come up with a term herself. I see no difference between a man who puts a bun in several girlfriends vs multiple wives. Why is one okay and the other not? I may not agree with other family-style units, but I always choose to treat them with respect and dignity.

As far as religious reasons for child marriage...I really believe this goes along with the obiedience factor and preventing illegitamate births. If the man is in his late twenties or early thirties; and the wife is young, then he becomes her new authority/father figure. She is more apt to look to him for advice throughout the marriage like a child to a parent. This would make sense in cultures/religions that lean toward female submission. If the girl believes this is good and right behavior, she will never question or understand it's "perceived" immorality by others. Most parents with this beliefs go through great strides to find the best man for their daughter. They absolutely will not marry off a beloved daughter to a pedophile. Every good parent wants what is best for their child. The key is consent.

These are a couple of huge differences between the Amish and my folks. My folks use a LOT of welfare dollars, a huge number of them. They refer to it as 'bleeding the beast.' *WE* are the beast.

Makes it hard to care as much when you take that into account. I have to let all that go when I am talking to them. The fact that my tax dollars are going to pay for this, I am the one working hard on their behalf and yet, I'm the bad guy ... or one of them anyway. :uhoh3:

Yes, there are many different "groups" of people with different "lifestyles" all across the country who are living on welfare and medicaid dollars paid in by those of us that work and care for them.

But if we condone a society of political correctness where everything goes, then I guess that's the price we pay for it.

I mean, if we don't draw the line anywhere, then we CAN'T draw the line anywhere.

I think open honesty in communication is best, my faith teaches me to love my neighbor, but I don't have to love their "lifestyle" to care for them respectfully and compassionately.

If we are not sure how to address people, I think it's best, as has been mentioned, to just ask for their preference in obviously sincere way. Most people recognize sincerity.

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