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I SAW HIM! - Near Death Experiences

Spirituality Article   (27,213 Views | 34 Replies | 2,065 Words)

spotangel is a MSN, RN and specializes in ED,Tele,Med surg, ADN,outpatient,homecare,LTC,Peds.

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Nurse seeing patients in the clinic on a usual day notes that unusually three patients back to back had Near Death Experiences. Coincidence? You are reading page 3 of I SAW HIM! - Near Death Experiences. If you want to start from the beginning Go to First Page.

macawake has 10 years experience.

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Did we not learn in school that nursing is holistic including a patient's spiritual needs?

We did. The PATIENT'S spiritual needs. The nurse's spiritual needs wasn't a part of the curriculum. We also learned about ethics, the importance of boundaries and the principles of beneficence and non-maleficence.

OP herself said that she had a question "burning inside" her and that she has "a burning desire to know about the other world". That expresses a very strong desire to learn for the sake of personal growth and to me, it doesn't epitomize patient-centered holistic nursing. Frankly, it suggests to me that some self-reflection regarding motivation is necessary.

Just because you have different believes doesn't mean we should never discuss anything spiritual related for disagreements sake.

This isn't about BELIEFS. It's not about OP's beliefs, it's not about your beliefs and it's not about my beliefs. Nursing is about the PATIENT! It's not about the nurse.

Some of these arguements do not make since and are completely invalid to me.

What arguments specifically do you have in mind? What is your rationale for rejecting them?

Don't you think that a person who almost lost her life in a vicious, brutal attack could suffer from PTSD?

Don't you think that it is possible to inflict further harm on a human being who has experienced a traumatic event and/or suffers from PTSD?

Don't you think that a nurse taking the initiative to ask traumatized patients or code survivors if they had an out of body experience, could possibly EVER be met by anger or cause harm to the patient?

I am confused as to what exactly it is you regard as "completely invalid"...

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KelRN215 has 10 years experience as a BSN, RN and specializes in Pedi.

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I have to speak up. Did we not learn in school that nursing is holistic including a patient's spiritual needs? Just because you have different believes doesn't mean we should never discuss anything spiritual related for disagreements sake. Some of these arguements do not make since and are completely invalid to me.

Yes, as in, the parent of the 32 week preemie wants their child baptized in the NICU, we help to arrange that. Not the 32 week pregnant woman comes in for a prenatal check, answers the screening question about domestic violence affirmatively and then we ask her if she's "seen the light".

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EaglesWings21 is a ASN, RN and specializes in Medical Surgical.

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It seems as though she sensed something in those patients and they were willing to share and mutual benefit was received. You can be an atheist or agnostic if you chose to, but that tells me you don't have that spiritual connection that believers do. If you don't believe in things that can't be seen then you can't speak on it. Yes one should be careful with PTSD as to not trigger flashbacks, but honestly if one never confides in someone about their PTSD events, they likely will never get over them. And that person isn't always ther therapist. Sometimes it's someone they connect with. She also did not openly seek information about the trauma; she only asked a simple question. The patient did the rest.

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It seems as though she sensed something in those patients and they were willing to share and mutual benefit was received. You can be an atheist or agnostic if you chose to, but that tells me you don't have that spiritual connection that believers do. If you don't believe in things that can't be seen then you can't speak on it. Yes one should be careful with PTSD as to not trigger flashbacks, but honestly if one never confides in someone about their PTSD events, they likely will never get over them. And that person isn't always ther therapist. Sometimes it's someone they connect with. She also did not openly seek information about the trauma; she only asked a simple question. The patient did the rest.

I don't think she can rightly say that she ALWAYS, 100% of the time, knows when her patient is comfortable with talking about their NDE. It's selfish to think and assert that you can, when it could end up emotionally hurting that person. She might not have actively sought out information about the event that caused the NDE, but when you ask a person with a traumatic experience, "did you see the light," don't you think they're going to have a flashback? "Yes, I saw the light when I was being stabbed to death by my husband." Even if it's not verbalized, they're probably still remembering it. The OP wasn't asking if they saw the light to benefit the patient; she was asking to confirm her beliefs.

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You sound offended by my questions and find it inappropriate . Where I work, my patients ask me about my family. I answer them briefly and deflect the questions back to their visit. Many of my patients are poor, have hard lives and have struggled. When I appreciated my 90 year old for being a courageous widow who took great care of her family, she sat taller in that wheelchair and beamed while her daughter smiled proudly at her. I celebrate little things and big achievements of my patients.I hesitated to write about this topic as I knew that would divide the camp to the believer/ nonbeliever /atheist group. My intention was to showcase what some of my patients experienced and to encourage discussion on end of life, NDE and the importance of giving their experience a listening ear and an open mind.

Bolding mine. I agree with the others here who have shared concerns about what you're doing. It seems to me, from reading over the thread that you are not offering "a listening ear and an open mind," but, rather, you are initiating the topic and eliciting disclosure, and you have a v. distinct point of view (bias) on the topic. Your "open mind" is open to the idea of people confirming your existing beliefs. I'm guessing your mind is not terribly open to embracing the ideas of the many people who would attempt to explain to you the various neurobiological theories about why people think they see light, or Jesus, or anything else, just prior to death.

I agree with others that you should not be probing for disclosures along these lines with individuals with histories of significant trauma if you are not trained and credentialed as some kind of mental health professional. You could easily do harm.

Edited by elkpark

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I do get the point of the people for this article and who are not for it too. I have read various articles from the OP and as per my understanding she has a really good spiritual sense (gift of Holy Spirit), not everyone has it.So, she is able to discern looking at he peace or the vibe that she is getting to ask that question. So many people are wanting to share their stories.

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spotangel is a MSN, RN and specializes in ED,Tele,Med surg, ADN,outpatient,homecare,LTC,Peds.

26 Articles; 251 Posts; 33,648 Profile Views

I will clarify a few things. First and foremost I hear your concerns.I read every single comment, both for and against.

I am not a nurse that "dig"s into a topic just to learn for myself regardless of what the patient feels.

None of the patients exhibited signs and symptoms of PTSD. Rather there was joy, peace and happiness when they shared their experiences. Their face had a glow that was not of this world. None of their lives were perfect but their peace transcended their problems . When they talked about the Lord, they were amazed, humbled and joyful that they were able to see Him.This was what I wanted to share with you.

I have never asked a patient right after a code/ traumatic event if they have seen the light. This question is only asked if a discussion ensues about a code situation they faced, months and sometimes years after this event which was the case in all three patients.

For the sake of keeping the article short and to the point, I focused my writing on the questions about their experience and not on the entire conversation, I had especially with the patient and the ex boyfriend.I pray that nobody is that insensitive.

We are here in this temporary home on earth only for a short while. We can agree to disagree!

In terms of my sensing stuff, in all honesty, I did not sign up for it but it was given to me. I never use it for anything else but to help my patients.

You can take every comment I wrote and dissect it and come up with conclusions but they may not be necessarily the right one.My life was saved by Jesus and the fact that I am alive today is due to his grace alone. So when I hear patients say that they saw him, I'd like to hear more. It does not trigger a PTSD reaction, far from it! It triggers a sharing of love. That is why we are on this earth, to love one another as he loved us! Peace to all!

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EaglesWings21 is a ASN, RN and specializes in Medical Surgical.

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Spot angel, I hear you. We have all been through trials in this life, some worse than others. If we never speak on them we never heal. Sometimes counseling is useless in people with PTSD. Sometimes people only confide in people they trust. Sometimes people take that experience and become stronger. They find a light within themselves and use it to light the paths for others. My life has been full of pain and struggle. I don't focus on that. I focus on God and His will for me. I smile and am personable with people. They may think I have my life together when in reality some of the trials I am currently going through are some people's worst nightmare. Humans were made to be there for each other.

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Been there,done that has 33 years experience as a ASN, RN.

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"My life was saved by Jesus and the fact that I am alive today is due to his grace alone. "

Two billion people are Christians. 5 billion are not. Individual research on NDE..based on individual belief is not only wrong, it is useless.

Might want to move this to the the spirituality forum .Personally, I am not buying that dying patients see Jesus Christ.

I have attended many dying patients. As they pass on, they focus beyond me... greet Uncle Joe.. or mom, or another relative. "Hi Uncle Joe". What are you doing here?

Firmly believe we are escorted over. But is not by a figure created by man made religion.

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spotangel is a MSN, RN and specializes in ED,Tele,Med surg, ADN,outpatient,homecare,LTC,Peds.

26 Articles; 251 Posts; 33,648 Profile Views

"Firmly believe we are escorted over".

I agree 100%.Many a time it is a loved one(family or friend).Not all of them see the light/spiritual beings/Jesus or experience an NDE. There is a strong scientific interest in this in the medical field. As nurses we should be able to talk about and learn from patient experiences regardless of our personal beliefs or religious inclinations.

What I hear over and over again from patients is the fear of not being believed,validated or even worse ridiculed by docs and nurses.

Some links if anyone is interested in the ongoing scientific research on NDE.

Source:

(1) http://www.opensciences.org/files/pdfs/Manifesto-for-a-Post-Materialist-Science.pdf

(2) Near-death experience in survivors of cardiac arrest: a prospective study in the Netherlands - ScienceDirect

(3) The Institute for Afterlife Research - Dutch Study

(4) http://www.resuscitationjournal.com/article/S0300-9572%2814%2900739-4/fulltext

(5) 4

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khminh has 1 years experience.

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I will clarify a few things. First and foremost I hear your concerns.I read every single comment, both for and against.

I am not a nurse that "dig"s into a topic just to learn for myself regardless of what the patient feels.

None of the patients exhibited signs and symptoms of PTSD. Rather there was joy, peace and happiness when they shared their experiences. Their face had a glow that was not of this world. None of their lives were perfect but their peace transcended their problems . When they talked about the Lord, they were amazed, humbled and joyful that they were able to see Him.This was what I wanted to share with you.

I have never asked a patient right after a code/ traumatic event if they have seen the light. This question is only asked if a discussion ensues about a code situation they faced, months and sometimes years after this event which was the case in all three patients.

For the sake of keeping the article short and to the point, I focused my writing on the questions about their experience and not on the entire conversation, I had especially with the patient and the ex boyfriend.I pray that nobody is that insensitive.

We are here in this temporary home on earth only for a short while. We can agree to disagree!

In terms of my sensing stuff, in all honesty, I did not sign up for it but it was given to me. I never use it for anything else but to help my patients.

You can take every comment I wrote and dissect it and come up with conclusions but they may not be necessarily the right one.My life was saved by Jesus and the fact that I am alive today is due to his grace alone. So when I hear patients say that they saw him, I'd like to hear more. It does not trigger a PTSD reaction, far from it! It triggers a sharing of love. That is why we are on this earth, to love one another as he loved us! Peace to all!

It is very clear that OP has the excuse to bolster Christianity. I bet if she encountered a patient who said "My life has never been the same since my encounter with Krishna", she would not bother to post such an article.

This is just another tactic from Christians exploiting their patients' stories to proselytize. I now understand why Christians choose nursing. Preying on the weak to recruit for Jesus. This is so insidious.

I guess I will have to visit my parents more often when they end up in a nursing home. The last thing I want for my parents, who are Buddhists, is to be under care of a nurse like OP.

Edited by khminh

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