(So glad I stumbled across this website again after almost 6 years! I need to change my username because I am not an aspiring nurse anymore, I have been a nurse for almost 3 years! ?)
Anyway, I really do not want to take this new covid vaccine. I know I can’t be the only one who feels this way. Typically I am not an anti-vaxxer but something about this illness is making me think otherwise. For personal reasons I really do not want to take it when available at my hospital, but I’m afraid it will be mandatory. I am almost considering finding a new job if my hospital forces us all to take it. What a shame because I do like my job and wouldn’t know what else to turn to that isn’t nursing, because chances are most healthcare related places of employment will likely require all employees take it.
I want to use the excuse of it being against my religion but I already took the flu vaccine this year. I have nothing against the flu vaccine but didn’t necessarily want it, but my hospital practically FORCED everyone to take it unless they grant you an exemption. I’m afraid they’ll question me why I took the flu shot but cannot take the covid vaccine.
What do you guys think about this? Will you be taking the vaccine? I just want us to be able to make our own decisions about this. If patients can refuse medications, procedures, and treatments, why can’t healthcare workers do the same? I read in multiple articles it will not be required by the federal government but each state and employer can decide whether or not it will be mandatory.
And forget the $1500 “stimulus check” that may be offered if you take it. All the money in the world would not change my mind about taking the vaccine. I feel as though if you have to bribe people to take it, something is peculiar.
I don’t know why this is bothering me so much. It should be a choice in my opinion. But by telling a few friends about not wanting it I feel judged. I have worked with covid patients multiple times since I am one of the younger nurses who does not have any kids/am pregnant. I feel like week after week I was always chosen to go to the covid section. At first I was mad but now it doesn’t bother me. I am not afraid to be near covid patients. Luckily through all this time I haven’t caught it. I always tell people I’d rather catch it than get this vaccine. That’s how strongly I feel against taking the vaccine. All of my non-nursing who have had covid are covered and thriving. To me catching it isn’t the biggest deal but others have called me selfish because I could be spreading it to others. Why is it looked at as selfish for not wanting to inject something into MY body. #mybodymychoice
Am I thinking about this too much? What would you do?
I was fully aware of why the public was being told misinformation and continue to be concerned with misinformation and lack of transparency no matter the reason behind it. It’s a big issue. This nurse doesn’t expect an entire body of knowledge to appear overnight but continues to think independently and find fault on authorities purposeful misinformation and feel the need to talk with others about it.... everyone on here keeps repeating mindlessly the research studies say this, and the research studies say that.. but when the research studies aren’t even aligning with the implementation process and authorities say this is just fine and effective we are *no longer* leaning on research. It’s worth talking about because people are being given misinformation.
Misinformation when they received their first dose with promise of a second dose which would provide substantial immunity and gross misinformation that delaying the second dose by three months is still effective, which is absolutely unproven and research and doctors have adamantly been saying it must be done in three weeks....
and super confused why my response to United Kingdom’s issue with the delay of the vaccination 2nd dose is getting all these negative comments about trump? I think it’s unrelated guys?
I am more concerned about the fact that two weeks ago we were told you MUST get the second dose of the vaccine in 3 weeks or less for it to be effective and all the research shows this and then in the UK for whatever reason legitimate or not ?!?? they had to delay the second vaccination. That’s fine but be transparent and honest!
The worst part of it is that despite doctors speaking out that it is an issue, the authorities are now saying it’s just fine, and overriding doctors and research with opinion. That part is concerning. Just be honest and admit it’s not ideal but overall it is for the greater good. But no, now they are changing the reality of the science and saying it is effective, which is worth looking at and being concerned about in its own right. But if we don’t demand or care about honesty and transparency than yessss.....it’s fine, everything is fine.
Why would you expect anything else? And yes, there is a reason here to mention Trump since he has been the main reason that we are left to fend for ourselves in a sea of lies. First, he displayed no faith in his own physicians on the task force and disparaged his own advisors publicly, leading more people to believe in rubbish. Secondly, he walked away from the problem leaving the people already working in the front lines to figure out how to deliver the vaccines into peoples' arms. Thirdly, just because he despised the previous administration so thoroughly and couldn't let his hatred go, he disposed of the previous pandemic plan devised by doctors and let Pence and Mike the Pillow Guy take the lead and set the tone of the task force and leaving us with no plan.
Well we do know that Covid actually causes strokes and MI's so how is the pathologist supposed to decide whether the person with history of low EF or previous partial carotid obstruction would have lived for more years if they had not had Covid. You have an admitted thinking disorder. How can you be so sure that you are so right and that every problem has a right or wrong answer? You seem to be unable to live with uncertainty. I don't like it either but I can admit that we have always lived in uncertain times and accept it.
Many people with ADHD and ASD are successful in a variety of endeavors. Of course I don't imagine certainty in anything is possible. What I seek is maximum inquiry and freedom to decide for ourselves what the best course of action should be (unlike where I used to work where RN's were forced to take an influenza vaccine, but MD's were not). I agree to your point Covid canprobably contribute to every condition listed and many more. However, at the same time we know that many, many people will have these things occur independently of Covid and that many of these people will also have Covid as part of their diagnosis. However, it is reasonable to conclude that some of the Covid hospitilzations and deaths are miscounted. At the same time some deaths may be "undercounted" especially outside the hospital.
Why would you expect anything else? And yes, there is a reason here to mention Trump since he has been the main reason that we are left to fend for ourselves in a sea of lies. First, he displayed no faith in his own physicians on the task force and disparaged his own advisors publicly, leading more people to believe in rubbish. Secondly, he walked away from the problem leaving the people already working in the front lines to figure out how to deliver the vaccines into peoples' arms. Thirdly, just because he despised the previous administration so thoroughly and couldn't let his hatred go, he disposed of the previous pandemic plan devised by doctors and let Pence and Mike the Pillow Guy take the lead and set the tone of the task force and leaving us with no plan.
What does Trump or for that matter Biden have to do with whether or not we will and should have autonomy to decide for ourselves whether or not we want to take a vaccine without facing sanction (either loss of our jobs or otherwise?).
Many people with ADHD and ASD are successful in a variety of endeavors. Of course I don't imagine certainty in anything is possible. What I seek is maximum inquiry and freedom to decide for ourselves what the best course of action should be (unlike where I used to work where RN's were forced to take an influenza vaccine, but MD's were not). I agree to your point Covid canprobably contribute to every condition listed and many more. However, at the same time we know that many, many people will have these things occur independently of Covid and that many of these people will also have Covid as part of their diagnosis. However, it is reasonable to conclude that some of the Covid hospitilzations and deaths are miscounted. At the same time some deaths may be "undercounted" especially outside the hospital.
I do not believe that in this time of actually having enough Covid tests to test any death, that we are not doing so and that someone who died of a car accident is being assigned to a Covid death. Otherwise, I don't know what you point is. We made a lot more mistakes in the beginning than now. Obvioiusly you are willing to jump onto a conspiracy theory that doctors are willing falsifying death certificates at this time.
I do not believe that in this time of actually having enough Covid tests to test any death, that we are not doing so and that someone who died of a car accident is being assigned to a Covid death. Otherwise, I don't know what you point is. We made a lot more mistakes in the beginning than now. Obvioiusly you are willing to jump onto a conspiracy theory that doctors are willing falsifying death certificates at this time.
I am not saying that anyone is falsifying anything. What I am saying is that the current process is to count every death where Covid is found to be present as a Covid related death or hospitilzation. This is a faulty premise, not anyone (certainly not at the individual level) of falsifying. If every Covid positive test (or people meeting symptom criteria) is listed related to covid then you will greatly overcount in people younger than 40 or 50 where covid normally is not a large source of morbidity and mortality. I ask you where is my thinking not correct in this analysis? Is there a paradigm that I am missing that separates these two groups?
I am not saying that anyone is falsifying anything. What I am saying is that the current process is to count every death where Covid is found to be present as a Covid related death or hospitilzation. This is a faulty premise, not anyone (certainly not at the individual level) of falsifying. If every Covid positive test (or people meeting symptom criteria) is listed related to covid then you will greatly overcount in people younger than 40 or 50 where covid normally is not a large source of morbidity and mortality. I ask you where is my thinking not correct in this analysis? Is there a paradigm that I am missing that separates these two groups?
Yes. The difference is that young people that aren't dying don't generate death certificates to falsify. If you are talking about younger people dying....I'm not sure what you are saying here. If a 40 year old died in a hospital with a previous dx. of HTN, CAD and DM, and was Covid positive are you automatically going to attribute to that as a non-Covid death?
Wouldn't it depend on the symptoms the patient was having at the time? So you are saying that when a young person with multiple co-morbidities dies in a hospital with a positive Covid test, you are absolutely sure that the patient did not die of Covid and that anyone who lists Covid as a dx. on the death certificate is falsifying a record?
Why would you expect anything else? And yes, there is a reason here to mention Trump since he has been the main reason that we are left to fend for ourselves in a sea of lies. First, he displayed no faith in his own physicians on the task force and disparaged his own advisors publicly, leading more people to believe in rubbish. Secondly, he walked away from the problem leaving the people already working in the front lines to figure out how to deliver the vaccines into peoples' arms. Thirdly, just because he despised the previous administration so thoroughly and couldn't let his hatred go, he disposed of the previous pandemic plan devised by doctors and let Pence and Mike the Pillow Guy take the lead and set the tone of the task force and leaving us with no plan.
Yeah if I had said “why are people criticizing trump in general?” That would make sense but I’m asking why are people blaming or complaining about trump when this is solely an issue in bringing up that is occurring in the United Kingdom.... what’s what makes it weird that I’m getting multiple responses about trump LOL
Yes. The difference is that young people that aren't dying don't generate death certificates to falsify. If you are talking about younger people dying....I'm not sure what you are saying here. If a 40 year old died in a hospital with a previous dx. of HTN, CAD and DM, and was Covid positive are you automatically going to attribute to that as a non-Covid death?
Wouldn't it depend on the symptoms the patient was having at the time? So you are saying that when a young person with multiple co-morbidities dies in a hospital with a positive Covid test, you are absolutely sure that the patient did not die of Covid and that anyone who lists Covid as a dx. on the death certificate is falsifying a record?
When I had Covid I asked my provider "if I died of an MI right now would it be a Covid death". She said "yes" because I was positive for Covid. Now I have no previous diagnosis of anything. But, as a 50 year old male with a BMI of 27 (overweight), sedentary job, somewhat poor diet I am at high risk of having an MI, or stroke at all times. Maybe, Covid could have been the thing that "pushed me over the edge" (had that occurred) or maybe it would have just been bad timing. Over the years I've cared for 100's (maybe 1000's) of people in their 20's, 30's, and 40's, and 50's with a plethora of conditions usually associated with people much older. What I am saying is that the current "default" system is to classify every hospitilzation or death where someone has Covid as "covid related". I'm not even sure you would disagree that this is the current process. If it is not please educate me (and I'm serious here) as to what the current process is to determine a Covid related death (or just being in the hospital) verses one where Covid is present, but not the critical or significant factor in their being there.
Let me get this straight: The scenario is a 50 year old person at risk of MI or stroke and you are admitted to the hospital. Clear so far? Do you have Covid or do you not have Covid when you are admitted? Why are you even in the hospital? Are you having Covid symptoms or not? If a 50 year old person was up and about and then had a Covid dx. and for some reason showed up in an ER and got admitted and died, you think that the death shouldn't be indicated to be Covid related. No one said that Covid was the cause of the death but it was RELATED. How could anyone with certainty say that it was not? It's one of the diagnoses on your chart.
No I am saying consider arguments rather than dismissing a point simply because it comes from a source of which you don’t approve. The point being made should stand or fall on its own.
I’ll admit, this line of thinking annoys me no end.
It’s not a matter of approving! Is that how you think professional nurses should look for facts?
When in my mid-twenties, I could bench press more than my bodyweight. Now twenty years later despite working out regularly, I can barely manage ~ half of that. I most certainly do notapprove, but it’s a bleeping fact nonetheless.
Facts aren’t relative and they certainly do not change because a person either agrees or disagrees with them. Facts aren’t left or right or anywhere else on the political spectrum. Opinions might be influenced by a person’s experiences, biases and general intellectual capacity, but facts aren’t.
If you went on a walk every morning and met the same person every day and he would address you and say things like the sun is made of heat-resistant chocolate, that Martians stopped by at o-dark-thirty and stole all his toes and his left earlobe and that he was on his way (hobbling a bit one would assume..) to a lunch date with Napoleon Bonaparte (he of Waterloo)... Would you still be urging us to consider his arguments?
Some of the sources that you’ve linked are thatman.
We’re not rejecting them because we don’t approve, we’re rejecting them because they lack credibility. If you can’t or won’t acknowledge the difference, there’s nothing more I can say.
Let me get this straight: The scenario is a 50 year old person at risk of MI or stroke and you are admitted to the hospital. Clear so far? Do you have Covid or do you not have Covid when you are admitted? Why are you even in the hospital? Are you having Covid symptoms or not? If a 50 year old person was up and about and then had a Covid dx. and for some reason showed up in an ER and got admitted and died, you think that the death shouldn't be indicated to be Covid related. No one said that Covid was the cause of the death but it was RELATED. How could anyone with certainty say that it was not? It's one of the diagnoses on your chart.
My point is that millions of people will be admitted to the hospital each year. Since Covid is so endemic many of them will also have Covid. In some cases Covid will indeed be a principal cause of their sickness or death. In other cases it will be "along for the ride". It seems that you agree that under the current system if someone goes to the hospital (say for chest pain and has a non STMI or ST elevated MI or other issue) and they have covid that they will be listed as "covid related". IF, that is the case then it means (given that it is so widespread) that there will be many, many people where Covid is not instrumental in their sickness. You are correct however that "untangling" the cases where it is a primary or significantly contributing factor from those situations where it is not is quite challenging. Take these statistics from Sweden https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107913/number-of-coronavirus-deaths-in-sweden-by-age-groups/ . They point to less than around 250 deaths from Covid in those under 60. If you limit it to those under 50 it drops further to less than 100. Now what I don't know is if there method of calculating covid deaths differs materially from that used in the United States.
subee, MSN, CRNA
1 Article; 6,182 Posts
Why would you expect anything else? And yes, there is a reason here to mention Trump since he has been the main reason that we are left to fend for ourselves in a sea of lies. First, he displayed no faith in his own physicians on the task force and disparaged his own advisors publicly, leading more people to believe in rubbish. Secondly, he walked away from the problem leaving the people already working in the front lines to figure out how to deliver the vaccines into peoples' arms. Thirdly, just because he despised the previous administration so thoroughly and couldn't let his hatred go, he disposed of the previous pandemic plan devised by doctors and let Pence and Mike the Pillow Guy take the lead and set the tone of the task force and leaving us with no plan.