(So glad I stumbled across this website again after almost 6 years! I need to change my username because I am not an aspiring nurse anymore, I have been a nurse for almost 3 years! ?)
Anyway, I really do not want to take this new covid vaccine. I know I can’t be the only one who feels this way. Typically I am not an anti-vaxxer but something about this illness is making me think otherwise. For personal reasons I really do not want to take it when available at my hospital, but I’m afraid it will be mandatory. I am almost considering finding a new job if my hospital forces us all to take it. What a shame because I do like my job and wouldn’t know what else to turn to that isn’t nursing, because chances are most healthcare related places of employment will likely require all employees take it.
I want to use the excuse of it being against my religion but I already took the flu vaccine this year. I have nothing against the flu vaccine but didn’t necessarily want it, but my hospital practically FORCED everyone to take it unless they grant you an exemption. I’m afraid they’ll question me why I took the flu shot but cannot take the covid vaccine.
What do you guys think about this? Will you be taking the vaccine? I just want us to be able to make our own decisions about this. If patients can refuse medications, procedures, and treatments, why can’t healthcare workers do the same? I read in multiple articles it will not be required by the federal government but each state and employer can decide whether or not it will be mandatory.
And forget the $1500 “stimulus check” that may be offered if you take it. All the money in the world would not change my mind about taking the vaccine. I feel as though if you have to bribe people to take it, something is peculiar.
I don’t know why this is bothering me so much. It should be a choice in my opinion. But by telling a few friends about not wanting it I feel judged. I have worked with covid patients multiple times since I am one of the younger nurses who does not have any kids/am pregnant. I feel like week after week I was always chosen to go to the covid section. At first I was mad but now it doesn’t bother me. I am not afraid to be near covid patients. Luckily through all this time I haven’t caught it. I always tell people I’d rather catch it than get this vaccine. That’s how strongly I feel against taking the vaccine. All of my non-nursing who have had covid are covered and thriving. To me catching it isn’t the biggest deal but others have called me selfish because I could be spreading it to others. Why is it looked at as selfish for not wanting to inject something into MY body. #mybodymychoice
Am I thinking about this too much? What would you do?
The beauty of cell culture is that the cells grow to confluence in the container to which they are seeded. Once they reach confluence, they can be “split” into a series of additional containers which can then be “split” when they reach confluence and so on. In this way the cell quantities expand exponentially. A single set of lungs from a fetus that was aborted between 3 and 4 months of gestation was large enough to dissect and create many ampules of low passage cells. Hayflick calculated that with a single small bottle that would hold about 10 million cells, he could produce up to 10 sextillion cells (1022 cells) or 87,000 times more cells than a company would need to make enough of one vaccine to ship to more than 40 countries in one year (p.89).
Hayflick developed 25 different fetal-cell strains, numbered WI-1 to WI-25. But several months into the project, he began to notice something strange. Scientific orthodoxy held that cells in culture, properly treated, would replicate forever. But his oldest cell strains were beginning to replicate more slowly. Eventually, they stopped dividing altogether.
In 1961, Hayflick and his colleague Paul Moorhead published a paper1 that would become one of the most cited publications in biology. Entitled 'The serial cultivation of human diploid cell strains', it showed that normal fetal cells stop replicating after about 50 population doublings. The paper launched a new field: the study of cellular ageing. And the wall that the cells hit — which was later found to arrive much earlier for adult cells, which have already divided many times2 — became known as 'the Hayflick limit'.
Survival of cell strains at − 70 °C with retention of all characteristics insures an almost unlimited supply of any strain regardless of the fact that they degenerate after about 50 subcultivations and one year in culture. A consideration of the cause of the eventual degeneration of these strains leads to the hypothesis that non-cumulative external factors are excluded and that the phenomenon is attributable to intrinsic factors which are expressed as senescence at the cellular level.
Also having as Catholic bioethicist speak for my belief is like having me tell a vegetarian there is nothing unethical about eating meat.
First, I am an Anabaptist(one of the three main groups of Christians) by implication a conservative Mennonite. The statement about immortal cells is wrong and I have shown this. The Catholics referenced do not do their research into these vaccines and generally speaking have no objection with the philosophy "the needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few"
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He also pointed out that these vaccines certainly will not encourage any more abortions since the cell lines from the original abortions are continuing to grow and duplicate and that therefore “there is little incentive to begin new human cell lines.”
China is not the only one to make new Cell lines and the common ones known about are MRC-5, WI-38, WI-26, WI-44, IMR-90, IMR-91, RA273 and more recently the HEK-293 has been being used more. PER C6 for ebola vaccines, Lambda.hE1 is used for the meds Procrit, Epoetin alfa, Epogen, Aranesp, Darbepoetin alfa
A key point about Lambda is that they don't need it to continue making the drug, they use E-coli at this point.
Even if a new HDCS is derived successfully, it might not satisfy requirements for industrial production due to its inability to sustain multiple passages, the IMR-9 cell line being an example.14,15 Due to the diminishing supply of WI-3810 cells, the MRC-5 line has become the most widely used cell strain in the production of HDCS-derived human vaccines.
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Furthermore, the productive cell generations for the OKA-HDC on the Chinese market from 3 manufactures are MRC-5 cells in the 32nd and 33rd passages,17 which have therefore already reached the limit required as described above in Chinese Pharmacopeia (the 33rd passage is the last cell doubling that could be used in the production for the MRC-5). Relying on imported HDCSs, may lead to unstable supply as well as unpredictable costs. Therefore the intention of this study is to develop a completely new HDCS of Chinese origin that could be used in manufacturing viral vaccines.
At the end of the day, if you really want to know, all of this information is available but you need to stop listening to news regurgitating data and taking it as fact. Look at the actual research and see. This list of fetal cell lines is in no way exhaustive... I don't use secondary sources for more then bunny trails to the primary sources. People are skeptical and you need to use accurate information otherwise it discredits you.
I don't really care if this is your stance...
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He wrote that it would be a “high standard indeed if we were to require all benefits that we receive in the present to be completely free of every immorality of the past
My stance is to avoid it to the cost of my own life. Also we do have ethical alternatives to vaccines such as MMR and the US drug companies dropped them because "it costs to much to do mono vaccines" In other words, if people don't care, why should they? One has to put their money where their mouth is. I use and support all ethical vaccines that are needed in the USA.
My stance is to avoid it to the cost of my own life. Also we do have ethical alternatives to vaccines such as MMR and the US drug companies dropped them because "it costs to much to do mono vaccines" In other words, if people don't care, why should they? One has to put their money where their mouth is. I use and support all ethical vaccines that are needed in the USA.
So which Covid vaccines are you saying are "OK" and which are implicated in using aborted cell lines? Is the Pfizer vaccine the "best of the worst" or OK? Also, I agree with your ethical perspective, it is a hard road. Consider that China "harvests" organs from living political and religious prisoners yet many of us (myself included) continue to purchase relatively inexpensive goods like my Iphone from there. Is this any (or much) less ethically questionable than using aborted fetal cell taken from an infant long deceased? How about the the "rocket" technology acquired from Nazi Germany via "operation paperclip" after WWII that brought German scientists to the United States with immunity for their crimes and served as one of the central points in facilitating America's rise to world military supremacy? Still, I see (but don't claim to fully comprehend) your point with the vaccines and pray that you will be able to abide by your values with less payment than you contemplate.
Well specifically as for the cost of my own life... I'm thinking of the Rabies vaccine...
As for the other aspects in connection to slavery...
I've spent a lot of time thinking about that and my conclusion is that while I can avoid certain medication and a few vaccines for myself... its near impossible to be free from goods connected with slavery.
So the cell phone as well as 99% of tech products are dependent on slave labor or at least wage slavery for something in the production phase either by assembly or by mining the rare metals needed for it. Not only is it harmful to the slaves but we also are destroying the earth to get these metals.
So lets throw tech out for a moment... What job could you do without electronics?
Secondly what about clothing? 99% of what we wear is not made in the USA (statistic made up on the spot) and even if you make your own clothes like the ladies in my group do, what about the fabric? is it spun and woven in the USA? Well we know of fires that have killed factory workers making clothing...
Okay so if we get rid of clothing what does that leave us with?
Well sheep wool and linen mostly are the easiest two fabrics to make.
My knowledge is limited in regard to sewing and that sort but there are very very few people who know how to make a weaving machine with wood and so on and at what point does this become ridiculous trying to avoid slavery? I'm guessing you can follow this thought that unless we renounced everything and walked into the woods with nothing (and promptly die) there is nothing without a connection to slavery in some way.
As for the war aspect, well... Mennonites do not fight and believe in non-resistance and at least my group believes against voting at all or engaging in politics.
So while if I look into the medications I might end up becoming a faith healer if I'm not careful... ? Vaccines is one place I can make a stand for myself on conviction as well as cancer treatments and epogen/procrit
Abortion is one sin I want nothing to do with if I can help it.
Slavery while wrong, seems unavoidable unless you are very wealthy and then of course... how did you get rich?
I'll leave you with my final thought related to this:
The only person fully consistent, is one without any stance.
I'm perfectly happy to continue this dialog but if its off the subject of vaccines, it might be better as a pm.
So which Covid vaccines are you saying are "OK" and which are implicated in using aborted cell lines? Is the Pfizer vaccine the "best of the worst" or OK?
Well... I rate things in a listing for my thoughts on other people, myself I want nothing to do with it.
Grown and produced on fetal cell line
created but not produced by fetal cell line
tested on fetal cell line
I can understand the last two as they don't inherently mean we need more cell lines but I'm still apposed to them.
This website has a listing of all of the vaccines in production and if "they"
consider them ethical or not. I'm honestly a little exhausted from all this covid madness and haven't spent anytime evaluating the others and had focused on the top three.
Either you take a very costly stand, or you accept testing and then take the Pfizer vaccine as the lesser of two evils. I wouldn't judge anyone who did that and called themselves a believer.
At some point I'll look into the others and hopefully find an ethical one I can take. Either way... Hopefully I can either wear a mask indefinitely or be fine as I had covid.
So simplify for me here is the Pfizer vaccine fetal cell line free?
The hardest questions don't have an easy answer. It depends on how far back you want to go in a drug's development. I'm guessing that the answer for some is yes and others is no. Thinking is hard.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
1 hour ago, subee said:
The hardest questions don't have an easy answer. It depends on how far back you want to go in a drug's development. I'm guessing that the answer for some is yes and others is no. Thinking is hard.
People looking for excuses to refuse vaccines will always find one.
Well I feel your post stands on it’s own merits but also creates ethical paradoxes. If an Anabaptist lives in a state that would not exist were it not for the blood of Native Americans spilled after broken treaties or uses roads that could not have been paved without the victory that allowed us to exist as a nation (WWII) isn’t that a bit like living in a house who’s rent is paid via the wages of a soldier? Perhaps, one might argue that Lot was blameless despite dwelling in Sodom. For the average person regarding your question the answer is going to be something closer to making the best most ethical choices they can and pray for God’s grace lest they stare too long and turn to salt. For me that means the Pfizer vaccine if I am forced to take one. For me God will have to work through a long list before I burn for this particular sin.
askater112
44 Posts
I am sorry my post is religious. I listened to a virologist podcast that said the same as article.
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