I got a counseling letter because I refused to help another staff member with her personal problems?

[Convoy2022_TrumpSupporter]

Basically my shift had ended at 5pm and I was ready to go home. Awkwardly a staff member who is also a Nurse was in the elevator with me she was going on her break. Greeted her and then she began sobbing, and I really was trying to avoid this situation. She began telling me how she is a single mother of 2, and that she had recently gone through a divorce 2 months ago and she didn't know what to do. I'm a very confidential person, I don't like gossip and such. I told her I was sorry she was going through this situation, but I told her to stop telling me more information, and divulging myself into her personal life. I said sorry I do not want to get involved, its not my business. She kept asking me for advice, I said look it has nothing to do with me please stop asking, and I referred her to our facilities Director of care and social worker. The next day I was called into the Directors office and that Nurse had reported me to what I said to her and they made a case that I was bullying her?

Nothing wrong with what I did, I don't put my problems at work. The boss said well you are a Nurse and you should figure out how to help someone. I told them...

1) my shift was over.
2) It had nothing to do with me in the first place.

None of this was in the job description when I applied. I of course did not sign the letter and will fight it, I did not feel like I was bullying her.

[TaShonda Lewis-Taylor]

As professionals, we need to learn and understand our limitations. The OP realized his limitations (crying female stranger, tired at end of long shift, long day of empathy towards patients). At some point Healthcare professionals need to realize they can't save everyone. You can't take on everyone's problems. Even just lending an ear adds another person's problems to our already full plates because now you "worry" about said person and their problems on top of your own and all the patients and all the other random people who want to spill their guts. That's what professional help is for (which the OP DID direct her to). He was right in not signing it and the woman that reported him needs one filed on her for harassment and retaliation. She will see filing unnecessary and unfair claims has consequences. The OP owed her nothing...honestly gave more (with directing her to counseling) than most. Yes, people have breaking points...we all do. But forcing your breaking points on others is how they end up breaking.  Also, the woman needs to learn her own social ques because she kept spilling her guts further making him uncomfortable. That's wrong on so many levels! I find it very reverse sexist that this man was written up when he was made to feel uncomfortable in the first place. If the roles were reversed, you all would be saying differently. 

[macawake, MSN]

1 hour ago, TaShonda Lewis-Taylor said:

I find it very reverse sexist that this man was written up when he was made to feel uncomfortable in the first place. If the roles were reversed, you all would be saying differently. 

Hi there! Since this is your very first post here I don’t think you’re in a position to be certain regarding how anyone of us would have reacted if the roles had been reversed. 

I would have responded the exact same way if the crying nurse had been male and OP had been female. It may well be a cultural thing. There are some posts in this thread that appear to suggest that perhaps this situation was extra difficult for OP since he’s male and the crying person a female. I don’t personally understand why that matters. These people are both nurses. One happens to be male, the other female. I’m not an American and here, no one would think it was the least bit strange or inappropriate if a male coworker comforted an upset female coworker by talking to them and placing their hand on the crying person’s shoulder, or even hug them. 
 

1 hour ago, TaShonda Lewis-Taylor said:

He was right in not signing it and the woman that reported him needs one filed on her for harassment and retaliation. She will see filing unnecessary and unfair claims has consequences. The OP owed her nothing...honestly gave more (with directing her to counseling) than most. Yes, people have breaking points...we all do. But forcing your breaking points on others is how they end up breaking.  Also, the woman needs to learn her own social ques because she kept spilling her guts further making him uncomfortable. That's wrong on so many levels! 

I might have agreed if I’d felt that the story made sense. 

I already commented on the fact that I think the exchange sounds implausibly long for an elevator ride. 

So we have one nurse in an elevator who greets another nurse. The second nurse then bursts our crying and starts blurting out details about her recent divorce and how she has two children and doesn’t know what to do. The first nurse then says repeatedly that they do not want to know, they want the other person to stop telling them things, that they do not want to get involved, that none of what the other person says is their business. But the crying person just keeps on asking for advice. She isn’t deterred and doesn’t feel rejected despite someone saying that they don’t want to hear any more.

The crying person doesn’t need to work on reading ”social cues”. There was no subtle message being sent here with the help of body language, facial expressions or verbal tone/ inflection. OP was very direct and told them that he did not want the other person to keep talking and he did not want to listen to them.

After all this the crying nurse goes to the Director and complains that they feel bullied by the OP. The Director appears to take everything the crying nurse said as the truth and an accurate and unbiased report of the events (despite one would assume the crying nurse being visibly emotional) since they never appear to have bothered asking OP if the story they’d been told by crying nurse matches OP’s experience. The Director then goes on to reprimand OP. 

Can I definitely say that it couldn’t have happened exactly like this? Of course not. I guess this constellation of characters could exist somewhere in the universe. I just don’t think the chain of events described sound very plausible. 
 

I’ve read several of OP’s threads and there is a common theme. OP gets involved in some kind of conflict and becomes the target of some manager’s attention. The reaction is always; I didn’t do anything wrong and this is not in my job description. Very adamant and quite rigid. In this thread he describes that he doesn’t like gossip. But a person crying, confiding in you and telling you about their own problems isn’t gossip, is it?

It is possible that OP is correct and that he hasn’t been wrong. What I’m trying to convey to OP is that there are a lot of situations in (work) life where while we are technically ”right”, we still find that it isn’t working for us. At that point it might be helpful to come up with a different strategy that might actually work to our advantage and produce the outcomes we desire. 

[TaShonda Lewis-Taylor]

29 minutes ago, macawake said:

Hi there! Since this is your very first post here I don’t think you’re in a position to be certain regarding how anyone of us would have reacted if the roles had been reversed. 

I would have responded the exact same way if the crying nurse had been male and OP had been female. It may well be a cultural thing. There are some posts in this thread that appear to suggest that perhaps this situation was extra difficult for OP since he’s male and the crying person a female. I don’t personally understand why that matters. These people are both nurses. One happens to be male, the other female. I’m not an American and here, no one would think it was the least bit strange or inappropriate if a male coworker comforted an upset female coworker by talking to them and placing their hand on the crying person’s shoulder, or even hug them. 
 

I might have agreed if I’d felt that the story made sense. 

I already commented on the fact that I think the exchange sounds implausibly long for an elevator ride. 

So we have one nurse in an elevator who greets another nurse. The second nurse then bursts our crying and starts blurting out details about her recent divorce and how she has two children and doesn’t know what to do. The first nurse then says repeatedly that they do not want to know, they want the other person to stop telling them things, that they do not want to get involved, that none of what the other person says is their business. But the crying person just keeps on asking for advice. She isn’t deterred and doesn’t feel rejected despite someone saying that they don’t want to hear any more.

The crying person doesn’t need to work on reading ”social cues”. There was no subtle message being sent here with the help of body language, facial expressions or verbal tone/ inflection. OP was very direct and told them that he did not want the other person to keep talking and he did not want to listen to them.

After all this the crying nurse goes to the Director and complains that they feel bullied by the OP. The Director appears to take everything the crying nurse said as the truth and an accurate and unbiased report of the events (despite one would assume the crying nurse being visibly emotional) since they never appear to have bothered asking OP if the story they’d been told by crying nurse matches OP’s experience. The Director then goes on to reprimand OP. 

Can I definitely say that it couldn’t have happened exactly like this? Of course not. I guess this constellation of characters could exist somewhere in the universe. I just don’t think the chain of events described sound very plausible. 
 

I’ve read several of OP’s threads and there is a common theme. OP gets involved in some kind of conflict and becomes the target of some manager’s attention. The reaction is always; I didn’t do anything wrong and this is not in my job description. Very adamant and quite rigid. 

It is possible that OP is correct and that he hasn’t been wrong. What I’m trying to convey to OP is that there are a lot of situations in (work) life where while we are technically ”right”, we still find that it isn’t working for us. At that point it might be helpful to come up with a different strategy that might actually work to our advantage and produce the outcomes we desire. 

I don't believe my response is any less valid if this was my first or 1,000th post. I've been in the medical field as a veterinarian and a pharmacist for 20 years. I don't need to post a billion posts to know what I'm talking about and you posting a billion posts doesn't mean you know what you are talking about. That's the most ridiculous logic ever spoken.?

[TaShonda Lewis-Taylor]

35 minutes ago, macawake said:

Hi there! Since this is your very first post here I don’t think you’re in a position to be certain regarding how anyone of us would have reacted if the roles had been reversed. 

I would have responded the exact same way if the crying nurse had been male and OP had been female. It may well be a cultural thing. There are some posts in this thread that appear to suggest that perhaps this situation was extra difficult for OP since he’s male and the crying person a female. I don’t personally understand why that matters. These people are both nurses. One happens to be male, the other female. I’m not an American and here, no one would think it was the least bit strange or inappropriate if a male coworker comforted an upset female coworker by talking to them and placing their hand on the crying person’s shoulder, or even hug them. 
 

I might have agreed if I’d felt that the story made sense. 

I already commented on the fact that I think the exchange sounds implausibly long for an elevator ride. 

So we have one nurse in an elevator who greets another nurse. The second nurse then bursts our crying and starts blurting out details about her recent divorce and how she has two children and doesn’t know what to do. The first nurse then says repeatedly that they do not want to know, they want the other person to stop telling them things, that they do not want to get involved, that none of what the other person says is their business. But the crying person just keeps on asking for advice. She isn’t deterred and doesn’t feel rejected despite someone saying that they don’t want to hear any more.

The crying person doesn’t need to work on reading ”social cues”. There was no subtle message being sent here with the help of body language, facial expressions or verbal tone/ inflection. OP was very direct and told them that he did not want the other person to keep talking and he did not want to listen to them.

After all this the crying nurse goes to the Director and complains that they feel bullied by the OP. The Director appears to take everything the crying nurse said as the truth and an accurate and unbiased report of the events (despite one would assume the crying nurse being visibly emotional) since they never appear to have bothered asking OP if the story they’d been told by crying nurse matches OP’s experience. The Director then goes on to reprimand OP. 

Can I definitely say that it couldn’t have happened exactly like this? Of course not. I guess this constellation of characters could exist somewhere in the universe. I just don’t think the chain of events described sound very plausible. 
 

I’ve read several of OP’s threads and there is a common theme. OP gets involved in some kind of conflict and becomes the target of some manager’s attention. The reaction is always; I didn’t do anything wrong and this is not in my job description. Very adamant and quite rigid. In this thread he describes that he doesn’t like gossip. But a person crying, confiding in you and telling you about their own problems isn’t gossip, is it?

It is possible that OP is correct and that he hasn’t been wrong. What I’m trying to convey to OP is that there are a lot of situations in (work) life where while we are technically ”right”, we still find that it isn’t working for us. At that point it might be helpful to come up with a different strategy that might actually work to our advantage and produce the outcomes we desire. 

Also maybe read for comprehension before responding as you would have read I was speaking on the fact he stated she made him uncomfortable yet continued to make him uncomfortable and then when he didn't allow it, she files a complaint on him. I HIGHLY doubt you would tell a woman it is OK for a man to make her feel uncomfortable and then file a complaint on her when she states such. And no...it doesn't matter the reason he is uncomfortable. You don't get to choose why a person feels a way about a situation. I don't care about his previous posts... I'm responding to this one.

[Mary P., MSN, RN, CNS]

It’s very sad a colleague would not offer support. This poor staff member is struggling and it took a lot of courage to make herself so vulnerable in the elevator. She is desperate for help and may not even be fit for duty. Does it matter if you are on the clock or not ? Is that the heart of a nurse ??  Please do what we are called to do- help a person in need 

[macawake, MSN]

1 hour ago, TaShonda Lewis-Taylor said:

If the roles were reversed, you all would be saying differently. 

55 minutes ago, macawake said:

Hi there! Since this is your very first post here I don’t think you’re in a position to be certain regarding how anyone of us would have reacted if the roles had been reversed.

23 minutes ago, TaShonda Lewis-Taylor said:

I don't believe my response is any less valid if this was my first or 1,000th post. I've been in the medical field as a veterinarian and a pharmacist for 20 years. I don't need to post a billion posts to know what I'm talking about and you posting a billion posts doesn't mean you know what you are talking about. That's the most ridiculous logic ever spoken.

Actually logic happens to be my forte ?

Saying that you don’t have the ability to state with certainty how a bunch of veritable strangers will react in a given situation is sound logic.

No you wouldn’t have to make ”a billion” posts, but you would have to know each and everyone of us very well. And you obviously don’t. (By the way, I have quite a ways to go before I reach the one billion post mark ?)

 

[macawake, MSN]

15 minutes ago, TaShonda Lewis-Taylor said:

Also maybe read for comprehension before responding..

Reading comprehension is my second best talent ?

[MarkMyWords]

If it was only 10 minutes to listen I say listen. We spent more than time reading and answering your post! I have and no one knows you and other users on this forum. But it is hard to stop a talker face to face. I don't blame the OP. Hey you might have made a friend. Or adversary? I just spent 10 minutes writing this from my life

[K. Everly, BSN, RN]

2 hours ago, TaShonda Lewis-Taylor said:

As professionals, we need to learn and understand our limitations. The OP realized his limitations (crying female stranger, tired at end of long shift, long day of empathy towards patients). At some point Healthcare professionals need to realize they can't save everyone. You can't take on everyone's problems. Even just lending an ear adds another person's problems to our already full plates because now you "worry" about said person and their problems on top of your own and all the patients and all the other random people who want to spill their guts. That's what professional help is for (which the OP DID direct her to). He was right in not signing it and the woman that reported him needs one filed on her for harassment and retaliation. She will see filing unnecessary and unfair claims has consequences. The OP owed her nothing...honestly gave more (with directing her to counseling) than most. Yes, people have breaking points...we all do. But forcing your breaking points on others is how they end up breaking.  Also, the woman needs to learn her own social ques because she kept spilling her guts further making him uncomfortable. That's wrong on so many levels! I find it very reverse sexist that this man was written up when he was made to feel uncomfortable in the first place. If the roles were reversed, you all would be saying differently. 

You are right in a lot of this. The behavior of the coworker was unprofessional and weird at best, and baiting and retaliatory at worst. 

I think part of the reason you are seeing people giving the suggestions they are is because a pattern has emerged and frankly, the wording used by the OP in a few posts in this thread was bizarre and cold. 

While we have advice for the OP, since the only thing he can control is himself, it doesn't make what the coworker or manager did OK. He can choose to leave this job, and perhaps he should, but the tone and mannerisms with which he conducts himself will need to be worked on either way IMHO. 

[Wuzzie]

1 hour ago, macawake said:

I don’t personally understand why that matters.

Because in the US we have rules about "sexual harassment" that can cause someone to lose their job. The term, unfortunately, is often loosely applied to any interaction that a person does not like ( much like bullying) and has been used in a retaliatory fashion. Once you are accused it is nearly impossible to defend yourself. Also, statistically, men fall victim to this much more often than women. Hence the reason a male nurse often needs to be chaperoned when providing personal care.

[macawake, MSN]

1 hour ago, Wuzzie said:

Because in the US we have rules about "sexual harassment" that can cause someone to lose their job. The term, unfortunately, is often loosely applied to any interaction that a person does not like ( much like bullying) and has been used in a retaliatory fashion. Once you are accused it is nearly impossible to defend yourself. Also, statistically, men fall victim to this much more often than women. Hence the reason a male nurse often needs to be chaperoned when providing personal care.

Thanks for replying Wuzzie ?

My previous musings on the matter were a bit vague. I think it’s fair to say that I understand it intellectually because I’ve witnessed it with my own eyes when living in the U.S.,  but I am struggling a bit emotionally. It genuinely is a cultural difference. 

A male nurse here never has a chaperone just because he’s male. In some situations we’ll be two nurses doing something together, but that’s either because the task requires it or because the patient appears emotionally or physically unstable. But the nurses could be any combination of male/female in that scenario. 

There are women who are attracted to men and the other way around, but there are also men who are attracted to men, and women to women. So in my mind, if we’re to sexualize every physical contact including for example a supportive hand on a crying person’s shoulder, then in my opinion we would need to ban all physical contact in the workplace. No matter how innocent.

If a coworker puts a hand on another coworkers’ shoulder, I would look at the context in which this took place and how the second person reacts to the touch. I wouldn’t be fixated on (or really pay much attention to) the ”toucher’s” and the ”touchee’s” sex.

Just to illustrate how different we actually are. I’m female and my partner is a man. Some of my very best friends are guys that I used to work with in my previous career. I’ve spent several long weekends with them (as the only female) in a cabin in the middle of nowhere, cooking and eating good food, drinking good wine (or ?), hiking during the days and playing poker in the evenings. My partner is fine with this. They are my friends and he doesn’t mind. I suspect many Americans might find this a slightly strange.

[JKL33]

2 hours ago, macawake said:

I’m not an American and here, no one would think it was the least bit strange or inappropriate if a male coworker comforted an upset female coworker by talking to them and placing their hand on the crying person’s shoulder, or even hug them. 

I am not an American man but I don't think I'm exaggerating my perception/belief that the average American man simply does not have this liberty, at ALL. Are there specific situations where it would be acceptable? Certainly. But not the average workplace scenario.

I can't say with any kind of certainty, but given just a general perception/feeling about things I'd say that for every 1 person who reports someone like the OP for not being caring enough, there would be 10?, 50? who would report inappropriateness if touching were involved.

As for the males with whom I have close relationships (family) I would adamantly advise (and have advised) them not to touch anyone in the workplace. The risks associated with being reported for the reason the OP was reported pale in comparison to the risks associated with finding oneself the subject of an inappropriate touching report.

I do think that if I came on AN and reported that I was riding the elevator minding my own business when a male coworker stepped in and immediately began telling me of his dissatisfaction with his wife compelling me to answer what he should do about it, I would likely take the "gotta go" approach. And I think I would enjoy widespread support, especially if I said he made me feel very uncomfortable.