I am currently suspended for having a conversation regarding body odor with a patient and 2 daughters. I had asked if she had any other deodorant because the one she had wasn't effective. We had what I thought was as delicate as possible conversation. Does that ever go well?
Well the daughters were offended that I had asked for a different deodorant and the mom was embarrassed and they complained to a couple of people that they had been offended.
Needless to say I was pissed (at my work) and felt they over reacted. Yes they (pt and family) could call state on me but I am confident in my abilities as a nurse and I am not afraid of that. I believe this was a little retaliation from a conversation I had with the administrator about a few things an hour or so before she was brought into this.
Also the part that really, really bothers me is after the administrator made that decision she left. So my boss called me and said she was getting "beard" to come in with us. I said absolutely not, I will not have "beard" in any of my business. I was very adament about my dislike of person and that I did not trust this person and wanted no part in my business. I told her she is more than welcome to have a conference call if she was that adament about not being alone. She said in like a defeated type voice "come on" I followed her thinking she was going to do that. BUT nope she had this person there. I was livid. She completely disregarded my feelings about the situation and made me VERY uncomfortable. This person is a charge nurse and a poor one at that, I have a lot of history with this person and not much of it good in regards to work.
How would you react?
I could have pulled one daughter aside and spoke with her privately but I honestly feel it would not have mattered. They would have been offended anyway. The minute I was told they were offended I went and spoke with the patient, spouse and one of the daughter (before being suspended) and sincerely apologized if I offended them I teared up because I felt horrible that I hurt my patient's feelings. I pride myself on giving good care and would never offend someone on purpose. The spouse and daughter both accepted my apology and the spouse shook my hand and thank me for apologizing. The daughter mentioned she had brought in 2 different types of deodorant and asked me to let her know if they didn't work.
Now the patient's BO that day was off the charts, I had her showered and sprayed with her deodorant. Later I was giving her something for pain and happened to see the deodorant bottle and the daughters were there, I knew they brought things in for her which is why I mentioned at that time.
Specializes in Emergency Dept. Trauma. Pediatrics.
I once had a patient and went to do her IV and I said "you must own a lot of cats" and she laughed and said yes how did I know. I responded "I can smell them" My friend who worked in Transport was there and still gives me grief about telling the patient she smelled like a cat lady. I didn't even realize how bad it sounded until after.
So OP feel better knowing that you were looking out for your patient and other residents. Me, I was just considered an orifice!
Specializes in Emergency Dept. Trauma. Pediatrics.
I am sure I've done something similar.
At pain clinic many years ago I had a dear older lady who reeked of perfume. I told her how lovely she smelled but that I had allergies, if she wouldn't mind skipping it during her visits with us.
It worked, but golly, whoo it was super strong.
Yea the more and more I think about it the more I feel for the OP. I have negotiated with a pt before to shower. Psych patients we were boarding for days in the ER. He smelled so rancid. I agreed to go to the cafeteria and get him some desserts if he agreed to bathe. He was a big guy and not one you could "force/persuade" to do anything. This was a win-win for us all!
Yes, and maybe there are barriers to obtaining resources to have a bath. unable to buy soap, pay utilities and have running water, or anhedonia where they don't even care to take a bath, poor senses to be aware of their state.
I think it was first grade that I remember the teacher engaging the class in a discussion about bathing and personal hygiene. I recall someone mentioning to the teacher that the water bill was discussed at their home; a reason for bathing not occurring on a daily basis. That stuck with me because I took the discussion home and my mother agreed with the importance of the size of the water bill. Not every child comes from a financially stable background. I also remember having encountered an older man, a veteran of WW II, who actually had to be assisted to take sink baths because he was so afraid of water. He admitted to having nightmares about the Europe-bound troop ship sinking. I couldn't understand how someone could have gone for that long a time without having the obvious PTSD dealt with. He seemed to be horribly bound by his fears.
The thing is, if a person has an odor that is that noticeable someone should say something. With me it was bad breath and I couldn't breath when talking to this (yep), it was a doctor. Now, I am sure my patients that he is seeing will not appreciate his halitosis. I can't quite remember how I put it but all I can remember is his behind into my boss's door.
I watched him come out and I was called in. My boss told me to never say anything to that doc again. We pushed some ideas around like getting breath mints or mouthwash and sending it to him from a secret admirer. Oh, he was young, smart, good looking but not in-tune with his body. Beautiful smile but when you got up close...whewwwww!
I certainly don't think you should have been suspended. Doesn't your facility have p/p that you should get a verbal warning first? Maybe you should have pulled her on the side and said something; been more discreet. I know from here on out you'll be more careful (or handle it different)...good luck to you :)
I had a beard too; I think we all have beards at work.
Specializes in Med nurse in med-surg., float, HH, and PDN.
I keep thinking that it is entirely possible that woman/patient, in an elevator or in the checkout line at the supermarket, surely must have heard some 3 year old proclaim loudly to an embarrassed mother, "Peeuuew, Momma, that fat lady really stinks!"
"Out of the mouths of babes!"...and I might note that this particlar little kid probably would not have been suspended...
I think it was first grade that I remember the teacher engaging the class in a discussion about bathing and personal hygiene. I recall someone mentioning to the teacher that the water bill was discussed at their home; a reason for bathing not occurring on a daily basis. That stuck with me because I took the discussion home and my mother agreed with the importance of the size of the water bill. Not every child comes from a financially stable background. I also remember having encountered an older man, a veteran of WW II, who actually had to be assisted to take sink baths because he was so afraid of water. He admitted to having nightmares about the Europe-bound troop ship sinking. I couldn't understand how someone could have gone for that long a time without having the obvious PTSD dealt with. He seemed to be horribly bound by his fears.
Nah, sorry, but this simply 'won't wash'..
As if a pint of warmish water, a square of cloth,
& a lick of soap - is unobtainable to those on even
the most hard-pressed budget..
I'd say that lack of basic hygiene is clear evidence
of the failure to provide necessities of life/duty of care..
Such lack of concern towards dependents whether children,
or infirm aged is despicable, & when applied to the self,
is a sure sign of a lack of self-awareness, & incipient
anti-social derangement, IMO - well, in our society, at least..
& a lick of soap - is unobtainable to those on even
the most hard-pressed budget..
I'd say that lack of basic hygiene is clear evidence
of the failure to provide necessities of life/duty of care..
Such lack of concern towards dependents whether children,
or infirm aged is despicable, & when applied to the self,
is a sure sign of a lack of self-awareness, & incipient
anti-social derangement, IMO - well, in our society, at least..
Sometimes, someone is aware they well...stink. And they lack the resources to help.
I'm a school nurse. I have a few students that I discreetly get laundry money to, but they have access to bathe as needed, but they do not access to funds for laundry. My school requires uniforms and even after bathing, an unwashed sweater will hold onto odors after being worn every day. It is a fine, fine line. And one I don't walk much. But these kiddos know their clothes stink and I built up a relationship so *they* were the ones that knew they could talk me and make a request for laundry help.
This kids have wonderful, caring families with a lot of pride - it took a lot for this request to happen and I respect privacy and have no right to judge. They have access to clean water, even soap. But funds get stretched to food or rent, for example, before they do to laundry. That simple. (And hand washing clothing only got them so far at home.)
Also the part that really, really bothers me is after the administrator made that decision she left. So my boss called me and said she was getting "beard" to come in with us. I said absolutely not, I will not have "beard" in any of my business. I was very adament about my dislike of person and that I did not trust this person and wanted no part in my business. I told her she is more than welcome to have a conference call if she was that adament about not being alone. She said in like a defeated type voice "come on" I followed her thinking she was going to do that. BUT nope she had this person there. I was livid. She completely disregarded my feelings about the situation and made me VERY uncomfortable. This person is a charge nurse and a poor one at that, I have a lot of history with this person and not much of it good in regards to work.
How would you react?
I would get a job at a union hospital and when my manager says they need to speak to me in such a manner, I would politely tell them not until my union rep is present. Man it is so different at a non-union facility!
You can devastate someone with a body odor discussion, or you can do it gently, and with respect. Don't even bring it up if your patient is stressed, they just won't take it well in that moment.
I've always tried to blame it on stress, meds, illness, the lack of air circulation, whatever, "but let's try (add something new) and I bet it will fade." Taking the alcohol hand rub directly to intact skin can clear up most BO, or a chlorohexidine bath. Then you have to maintain cleanliness. Try to make it look like pampering, not scrubbing!
You'd be surprised how many discussions my husband and I had with my very handsome teenage son while he was in middle & high school about the powerful stench he was emanating. It felt like hundreds of conversations.
My husband was very straightforward as most men are wont to do: "Ya stink boy! Go take a shower! Now! And use soap!", whereas I tried to be a bit more delicate about his finer emotions: "You know honey … it's been 785 days since your last shower … Perhaps you could go get cleaned up a bit please?". Both conversations resulted in the desired result, but we both had very different approaches.
I drove my son and a group of his friends somewhere once during the heat of the summer when they were 14 … I had to roll down all the windows as I was asphyxiating and gagging (it was an evil little malevolent cloud of foul hanging in the car that day - a miasma redolent of au du exhumed coffin, an abattoir, and a locker room full of old gym socks). The effluvia was so thick and malodorous circulating in the AC that it was practically a sentient being in it's own right.
The point is sometimes there is no way to avoid bringing up the 800 lb gorilla in the room. I look at it like this: it was better it came from me than that lovely little 3 year old kid someone else mentioned who will call a duck a duck - or a peer who would have most likely been far less considerate regarding the delicate emotions we all have.
With a patient though there is a whole nother set of rules of propriety governing the protection of those delicate emotions. It's a tough call: address it, breathe easier but risk offense - or not, and choke on the charnel house stench for 12 hours?
Most people will react badly to being told their scent is offensive, and shame is a horrible feeling. This situation really had no happy ending outcome possible - someone was destined to lose here. There just wasn't enough of a relationship formed between the two of you to not invoke a shame response - though regardless of that I feel suspension was a bit draconian of a response.
Specializes in Mental Health, Gerontology, Palliative.
I had this happen with a caregiver in my work place. She had marked body odour, so much so even my nose picked up on it and i had family and other staff complaining to me about it.
Its one of those conversations that no one wants to have with another person, by the time the tenth person came to talk to me, i really had no choice. I was honest, tried to be as nice as possible and it doesn't seem to have been a massive issue since.
Another way to address the issue might have been when assisting the patient with cares to make sure they had a really good soap and water wash and as I phrase it "let me put on your smellies' (a coloquial term we use for deodorant, perfume, talc) and make you smell nice
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~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN
5,259 Posts
I once had a patient and went to do her IV and I said "you must own a lot of cats" and she laughed and said yes how did I know. I responded "I can smell them" My friend who worked in Transport was there and still gives me grief about telling the patient she smelled like a cat lady. I didn't even realize how bad it sounded until after.
So OP feel better knowing that you were looking out for your patient and other residents. Me, I was just considered an orifice!