How would you react? Body odor discussion.

[Nurse-rachet1]

I am currently suspended for having a conversation regarding body odor with a patient and 2 daughters. I had asked if she had any other deodorant because the one she had wasn't effective. We had what I thought was as delicate as possible conversation. Does that ever go well?

Well the daughters were offended that I had asked for a different deodorant and the mom was embarrassed and they complained to a couple of people that they had been offended.

Needless to say I was pissed (at my work) and felt they over reacted. Yes they (pt and family) could call state on me but I am confident in my abilities as a nurse and I am not afraid of that. I believe this was a little retaliation from a conversation I had with the administrator about a few things an hour or so before she was brought into this.

Also the part that really, really bothers me is after the administrator made that decision she left. So my boss called me and said she was getting "beard" to come in with us. I said absolutely not, I will not have "beard" in any of my business. I was very adament about my dislike of person and that I did not trust this person and wanted no part in my business. I told her she is more than welcome to have a conference call if she was that adament about not being alone. She said in like a defeated type voice "come on" I followed her thinking she was going to do that. BUT nope she had this person there. I was livid. She completely disregarded my feelings about the situation and made me VERY uncomfortable. This person is a charge nurse and a poor one at that, I have a lot of history with this person and not much of it good in regards to work.

How would you react?

I could have pulled one daughter aside and spoke with her privately but I honestly feel it would not have mattered. They would have been offended anyway. The minute I was told they were offended I went and spoke with the patient, spouse and one of the daughter (before being suspended) and sincerely apologized if I offended them I teared up because I felt horrible that I hurt my patient's feelings. I pride myself on giving good care and would never offend someone on purpose. The spouse and daughter both accepted my apology and the spouse shook my hand and thank me for apologizing. The daughter mentioned she had brought in 2 different types of deodorant and asked me to let her know if they didn't work.

Now the patient's BO that day was off the charts, I had her showered and sprayed with her deodorant. Later I was giving her something for pain and happened to see the deodorant bottle and the daughters were there, I knew they brought things in for her which is why I mentioned at that time.

[Nurse-rachet1]

My issues or history with this person is that he a crappy nurse and I take issues with people who pass off work, are lazy and don't do their job. I hardly think having issues with one employee makes me the problem.

[~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN]

My issues or history with this person is that he a crappy nurse and I take issues with people who pass off work, are lazy and don't do their job. I hardly think having issues with one employee makes me the problem.

I always have an issue with the same select type of people at work. No matter where I go. You could survey 100 people and about 95 of them would say they love working with me. But those 5 seem to be the same type of people and are the type of people that are far more concerned with everyone else and what they are doing instead of themselves and their own patient care. A lot of jealousy and insecurity. I am a great nurse and give good patient care. But I am a straight shooter and my personality is one that people generally either really like me, or can't stand me. There isn't usually any middle ground.

I have had co-workers interject on people gossiping about me and flat out ask them what it is I have done to them for them to dislike me and the person can't come up with anything. They will say things like "well she was seen out to eat with doctor so and so" or "Dr. so and so let's her do this or do that" I just roll my eyes.

I don't know you or how you are at work but I wouldn't pay too much attention to that previous comment on the little bit we know. Like I said, I think the punishment was a bit excessive based on what you have said and I assumed from your OP that you were in a long term setting and not acute care where I can certainly see where severe BO can be an issue for not just you, but other residents. It's an uncomfortable situation and I am not sure how you could have come out ahead.

[pixierose, BSN, RN]

My issues or history with this person is that he a crappy nurse and I take issues with people who pass off work, are lazy and don't do their job. I hardly think having issues with one employee makes me the problem.

I get it. However, this person is a charge nurse often? And to get this straight, this is "beard?"

There seems more to this than a body odor conversation, kwim? The crime just doesn't fit the punishment, so it's hard to say how I would react.

You stated before that you felt this was retaliation from a discussion an hour prior. Why do you say this? What was said during this discussion? Who was part of this discussion?

[Daisy4RN]

Are you sure that there was not an incident that preceded this? Suspension sounds like overkill for this. Maybe it was the last straw for admin, you mentioned something with them one hour prior to this, and also it seems you don't like your charge nurse. I am not saying this to be mean but to help you understand the situation. Its possible to be a "good nurse" but not be on good terms with admin at the same time. Either way, I don't think I would ever bring this up to a patient, especially if there is family around who either don't seem to care about, or notice, the body odor. Most admin these days will not stand up for the nurse no matter how well intended you are (customer service!), sometimes better not to say anything and prevent the problem in the first place. I would have just made sure she was bathed and use what ever products family brought for her. No need to make a problem for yourself!

[Purple_roses]

My issues or history with this person is that he a crappy nurse and I take issues with people who pass off work, are lazy and don't do their job. I hardly think having issues with one employee makes me the problem.

I get that, but you had issues with the family, the administrator (you mentioned this could have been retaliation from a convo you'd had with her an hour earlier), and the charge nurse. If I read it correctly, that's three different people you're having issues with at the same time.

For what it's worth, I do think it's nuts that this lead to a suspension. And I don't think you're a bad person or a bad nurse. What I was trying to get at is maybe there's an underlying problem here--maybe you're doing the right things, but you're simply too blunt when you speak to others. I'm a blunt person myself, and I have to work on toning that down when I talk with people I'm not close to.

[TheMoonisMyLantern, ADN, LPN, RN]

To be suspended over that sounds as though you've made some enemies where you work. I would keep my mouth shut and my head down if I were you.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

As far as the suspension goes, I am sorry to hear that management did not do more to speak to the family and then you. I could understand management asking you to apologize and possible take communication classes? But suspension is a lot. Especially when it seems the family was okay after the apology.

Sometimes families profess to be "OK" after an apology -- at least to the one who has apologized -- but they'll still go up the chain of management, continuing to complain. We're not sure if the family really was "OK" or just professed to be to get the OP to go away.

[Nurse-rachet1]

Thanks. I am aware that I can be blunt and keep a watch on it. I didn't have an issues with the charge nurse, we get along fine - BUT I don't appreciate him as a worker therfore I don't want him in my business because he gossips.

My other issue that day was a conversation with the administrator, the conversation was fine but the content was about a prematurely rolled out computer program. We were going over glitches. I don't think that she liked hearing how everyone was frustrated with this. That was the basis of the conversation.

In my defense of this conversation... I have to make sure my patient's are cared for. I don't personally care if they want to have BO, but when they are sitting in the hall and I see the faces everyone (including staff) make as they pass her, I need to take care of her. Before ever having a conversation like that I try everything else first. While my delivery could have been more private my intentions were good.

[1056chris]

You need to be kind and considerate of your patients needs and not blame the family for inadequate nursing care. They had a right to be insulted and mad.

You are the nurse and the care giver. These people are relying on you and your staff to care for their loved one with dignity and respect There are many reasons why patients have body odors when they are sick. It could be be disease process itself, infection, improper cleansing, sweating, being in bed or in the same positions for a long time etc. There are special creams and cleansers you could have tried, keeping air freshener in the room.changing the linens and gown more frequently or even picked up a deoderant for her. Think how you would feel if you were one of the daughters and that was your mother. Think before you speak.

As for the suspension it does seem a bit harsh....if this was the first incident of this type of behavior.

[LovingLife123]

They told you that you would be investigated by the state over this? This whole thing is confusing. I don't get who beard is. A charge nurse? A fellow coworker? Apparently someone you don't like.

I don't get why you were suspended? For talking to a patient about body odor? I've had to speak to so many people in my lifetime about body odors. They are usually just so used to the smell they don't smell it anymore. Sorry they were offended but it needed to be addressed and by saying the deodorant they had was no longer working was to me a tactful way of putting it. I'm sorry they were offended, but the fact is the woman had severe body odor. How often was this woman bathed and by who? I would think if the people giving baths in your facility were doing a good job she wouldn't have severe body odor. Maybe a talk with the CNAs is in order and that's what this is about. The patient was embarrassed and the daughters felt like you guys were not doing your jobs by keeping their mother clean.

If the daughters complained about care and threatened to call the state for inadequate care, like their mother not being given basic hygiene, this may be why you are suspended.

So my question is, how any days had it been since this woman had been bathed?

[No Stars In My Eyes]

Jeeezzz, ya know, there is a lot in this world that is legitimately offensive, but the trickle-down effect is that some people now tend to use being offended as a way of life. They jump at a chance to have a grievance.

And the Powers That Be hold their collective breath, not because of the odor in question, but as they walk over coals and then tippy-toe on egg shells, they are hoping the patient and the family aren't going to raise a bigger stink!

SMH. If I had been told my deoderant wasn't effective, first I'd look around for a hidden camera,(well?!), and then say, "Huh. I didn't know."

On the other hand, I can't think of a time when I actually said something to a patient about their Eau de Personal~Aromatique, and I've had some downright disgustingly stinky patients, who, if you hadn't known to brace yourself could quite literally cause you to lose your breath for a second. I believe the word is ... overpowering.

But yeah, suspending you is totally ridiculous. THEY are the ones who are being offensive, groveling that way.

[gettingbsn2msn, MSN, RN]

I absolutely believe this story and what transpired. This is how "customer service" friendly healthcare has become. I dropped a glove on the floor one time. Pulled a new one out, did what I needed to do and picked up the "dirty glove" and threw it away. Of course, patient complained because I dropped a glove and they thought I used it again. Called into administration and all that. This was all while the hospital was "trying to be magnet" Ugh.....glad I am no longer in such a place.

Personally, if I stink, I hope someone tells me!!!