How Many is Too Many

carolinapooh, BSN, RN · Jun 23, 2005

I saw a program about the family with 14 kids and one on the way. They are very religious, and evidently very organized. She even home schools. They are debt free; the kids all play two musical instruments, the father and older sons are building a new house.
I think they are clearly pod people, but more power to them.

I wondered about that - do tell, what are pod people?

carolinapooh, BSN, RN · Jun 23, 2005

i did not see the tv show that this family was on so i am speaking in general. when they say that they go w/out what they can't pay cash for, i wonder what they are going w/out. i wonder what the quality of life is for the family. also, aside from the financial repercussions it interests me to know if all of the children get adequate emotional support of both parents. whenever i watch the tv shows that follow large families, everyday seems to be like a military operation. there seems to be such a rigid schedule in order to get things done that i cannot imagine there being enough time in the day to address every child's emotional health. also, my mother came from a large family-five children, and i do know for a fact that the children felt that they had been slighted at times d/t having a large family. i know that this will sound judgmental, but i think that people often procreate excessively w/out seriously considering if this is in the financial, spiritual, and emotional best interests of the family.

They didn't seem to be going without much.

They do make many of their clothes, but they have two cars (one a small bus, the other a nice Econoline), are building a HUGE house on their own property (they're building it themselves), had a VERY well-stocked pantry, and paid cash for $800 worth of groceries. The kids looked happier and healthier than many I've just seen in passing.

I admire them both!

carolinapooh, BSN, RN · Jun 23, 2005

Also, remember the Amish typically have huge families, where 9 and 10 kids aren't that unusual. They certainly don't live off the state.

allnurses Guide · Jun 23, 2005

I don't see a problem with the amount of kids you decide to have.

I also don't believe that parents should purchase their kid's car - maybe help a little but the kids should either pay for most of it or at the very least pay for taxes, insurances and gas and upkeep.

As to college, there are community colleges, scholarships, grants, etc. I do not believe that parents owe their kids a college education either. We help but we are not footing the entire bill.

It is entirely up to each and every family to decide how many kids they want. This family sounds great. I'd love to have been part of that experience instead of a dysfunctional smaller family . . .

Size doesn't equal quality. :)

steph

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Jun 23, 2005

I do have a problem when people continue to have kids that they can't afford to take care of. Call me judgemental, but it's not fair to the kids.

LilPeanut, MSN, RN, NP · Jun 23, 2005

I think it's too many. I've seen that show and the saddest thing I heard was the 10 year old girl saying the thing she was most excited about for the new house was the new laundry room. That isn't right.

The "parents" do very little in the way of parenting. Mom cares for baby for a year, then they get paired with an older "buddy", who is responsible for them. The kids clean the entire house, from laundry to cooking to the parent's bedroom. The food they eat is processed crud. (Nothing wrong with that every once in a while, but they can't afford to get lots of fresh fruits and veggies for that many)

They are scary fundies, will not allow their children to date (they arrange marriages) and hit their children to get them to behave. Where's the independant thought? Where's the creativity? Where's the individualism?

They aren't being parents, they're running an institution and are not doing their children any favors, IMO.

carolinapooh, BSN, RN · Jun 23, 2005

I think it's too many. I've seen that show and the saddest thing I heard was the 10 year old girl saying the thing she was most excited about for the new house was the new laundry room. That isn't right.
The "parents" do very little in the way of parenting. Mom cares for baby for a year, then they get paired with an older "buddy", who is responsible for them. The kids clean the entire house, from laundry to cooking to the parent's bedroom. The food they eat is processed crud. (Nothing wrong with that every once in a while, but they can't afford to get lots of fresh fruits and veggies for that many)
They are scary fundies, will not allow their children to date (they arrange marriages) and hit their children to get them to behave. Where's the independant thought? Where's the creativity? Where's the individualism?
They aren't being parents, they're running an institution and are not doing their children any favors, IMO.

When I was a kid, I would have loved to have had a laundry room. Our washing machine was in a hallway and the dryer was out in the covered back porch. If we had things that didn't go in the dryer, we had to hang them up on a rack in the kitchen. My best friend who, in my opinion, was rich, had a laundry room and I thought only WEALTHY people had such a thing. I have one now and I think I'm living like a Rockefeller. My sister and her husband cannot afford a three bedroom house. So their daughters share a room. My six year old niece came over to my house and said that if she and her sister lived there, they could each have their own room - and rooms for each girl, as they put it, is the first thing they mention whenever their parents talk about the saving they're doing for their future house. Does longing for their own room - remember, there's only two of them - make them a sad little pair? I wanted a laundry room - does that make me sad? Just because a kid is excited about something in their new house doesn't mean they're being driven like slaves. They were playing outside and said they were GLAD to help - glad to contribute. Too many kids now are ungrateful for anything done for them; these kids were PLEASED.

When my older sister was born, my mother was busy with a new baby and my father was deployed or on cruises (he was Navy) most of the time. My older brother looked after the younger brother since basically my mother was a single parent. This was in the late fifties - early sixties, when no one cared about military families like they do now (and my mother was washing diapers - who could afford a diaper service?). They were 18 months apart. My brother is not emotionally scarred as a result of basically being my other brother's buddy.

As for the food, at least they weren't being crammed full of Mickey D's like so many other kids I see all the time. I grew up on canned and frozen veggies (which I've heard can be better than fresh) and played outside all the time - unlike so many kids today who stay inside glued to the set. I was never overweight then and I'm not now. I see PLENTY of grocery carts for smaller families in grocery stores piled high with quick-heat burritos and junk cookies - and the kids with the shoppers are grossly overweight for their age. The Dugger kids actually PLAY OUTSIDE, a concept lost on some of these kids now. I believe the mother said they don't even have a TV. My Catholic nieces are allowed to watch a few cartoons (classics like Scooby Doo), Animal Planet, the Food Network, and Disney movies - and this is at MY or MY MOTHER'S house, because they don't have a TV either. They draw, read, play house, and do crafts.

I got a well-deserved pop on the hand or bottom when I screwed up. I'm not on Oprah, whining about how my parents mistreated me and ruined my psyche. Nor am I mentally disturbed and under the care of a shrink, medicated on Adderall or whatever else they're pumping kids up with these days (which, interestingly enough, none of these kids were taking either).

The show said nothing specific about their beliefs (or even that they hit their kids!), other than that they prefer to associate with other families like theirs and they would like to see their children marry someone with similar values. I didn't hear them say they arranged marriages. I consider myself Christian and God-fearing, which means I'd really rather not associate with Satanists. I married a Christian, not an atheist. Does that make me scary? If what their eldest son said is indicative of their values, I think ANYONE would like to marry a guy like that!

Imagination? For Christmas one of the girls made an outfit for each of her sisters. How many eleven year olds do you know that can do that?

I want children to be happy, healthy, loved, and wanted. I think every one of those kids are. I don't subscribe to their religious beliefs, nor do I want any more than one or two kids, but I think their kids are happier than some typical nuclear families are. Those parents are indeed parenting - it's evident in the discipline the kids displayed. Just my opinion. Sorry to prattle.

carolinapooh, BSN, RN · Jun 23, 2005

I don't see a problem with the amount of kids you decide to have.
I also don't believe that parents should purchase their kid's car - maybe help a little but the kids should either pay for most of it or at the very least pay for taxes, insurances and gas and upkeep.
As to college, there are community colleges, scholarships, grants, etc. I do not believe that parents owe their kids a college education either. We help but we are not footing the entire bill.
It is entirely up to each and every family to decide how many kids they want. This family sounds great. I'd love to have been part of that experience instead of a dysfunctional smaller family . . .
Size doesn't equal quality. :)
steph

You know, I've seen the Discovery Channel show a couple of times now, and every time I see it I too feel like I missed out on something special. They all looked so HAPPY and Dad just looked like a nice guy.

I would rather my tax dollars go for Pell Grants for those kids, whom I feel sure would use them prudently and successfully, than for intergenerational welfare. I'd get my money back from the Dugger kids in productivity, so to speak.

I don't think kids are owed extras, either. I do, however, want to be able to pay for my kid's education, and will, willingly - until he/she screws up and wastes my money by too much partying or flunking out. Like my dad told me, we'll help you until you blow it (and they didn't pay for me because they couldn't afford it; they sent $100-150/month and made sure I had clothes and food - I borrowed the rest - and they did get me a bike for school since we surely couldn't get me a car). I used to panic every time I thought about money. In 1993, I was in line at the bookstore my junior year of college, stressing out because my loan hadn't come in yet and I had to call Daddy to get another $40 for books because I was short until my check came, and some snot in front of me told the cashier he didn't want the used book because he was spending his father's money anyway - and LAUGHED. I wanted to POP him one.

You're right - there is TOO much of a sense of entitlement with most kids - even among the ones I went to school with. Maybe because my parents were old enough to be my grandparents (my brothers are 50 and 48 and the 50 year old has a 29 year old daughter - I am 32) and had lived through the Depression and WWII rationing I thought a bit differently.

imenid37 · Jun 23, 2005

I do have a problem when people continue to have kids that they can't afford to take care of. Call me judgemental, but it's not fair to the kids.

I agree. I know 2 familes w/ huge # of kids. Both recieve social service monies, though they have family income that could readily accomodate 4-5 kids. Not my business, unless you are mistreating kids or expecting me and my tax dollars to finance your family size.

amber1142 · Jun 23, 2005

I wondered about that - do tell, what are pod people?

It's a joke- pod people are aliens who are disguised like the rest of us. I admire the family for how they (seem) to manage their lives, and I know I could never manage that and I only have four.

Their choices are not my choices, but for heaven's sake, there is not just one way to raise healthy, happy children. Recognizing that is what diversity and tolerance is all about.

LilPeanut, MSN, RN, NP · Jun 24, 2005

There's other information out there about the Duggars besides the rosy picture that the Discovery channel paints.

Those children were not children, they were automatons, mini-adults deprived of the right of independant thought.

From their website, they say that by 17 months old they begin training their children, starting with "blanket time", where said 17 month old is expected to sit and be quiet and not stray from the blanket, else they are hit. Read up on Ezzo and Pearl to get what their idea of "training" is.

Yes, their children are all quiet, well-behaved and echo the exact feelings the parents want them to echo. Is that considered a success in raising? Not in my opinion. Success is a person who is caring, creative and independant. I have views that are very different from my father's and I think that is fabulous. Kids need to be kids. They need to scream sometimes, they need to learn how to question, they need to be more than trained poodles.

allnurses Guide · Jun 24, 2005

When I was a kid, I would have loved to have had a laundry room. Our washing machine was in a hallway and the dryer was out in the covered back porch. If we had things that didn't go in the dryer, we had to hang them up on a rack in the kitchen. My best friend who, in my opinion, was rich, had a laundry room and I thought only WEALTHY people had such a thing. I have one now and I think I'm living like a Rockefeller. My sister and her husband cannot afford a three bedroom house. So their daughters share a room. My six year old niece came over to my house and said that if she and her sister lived there, they could each have their own room - and rooms for each girl, as they put it, is the first thing they mention whenever their parents talk about the saving they're doing for their future house. Does longing for their own room - remember, there's only two of them - make them a sad little pair? I wanted a laundry room - does that make me sad? Just because a kid is excited about something in their new house doesn't mean they're being driven like slaves. They were playing outside and said they were GLAD to help - glad to contribute. Too many kids now are ungrateful for anything done for them; these kids were PLEASED.
When my older sister was born, my mother was busy with a new baby and my father was deployed or on cruises (he was Navy) most of the time. My older brother looked after the younger brother since basically my mother was a single parent. This was in the late fifties - early sixties, when no one cared about military families like they do now (and my mother was washing diapers - who could afford a diaper service?). They were 18 months apart. My brother is not emotionally scarred as a result of basically being my other brother's buddy.
As for the food, at least they weren't being crammed full of Mickey D's like so many other kids I see all the time. I grew up on canned and frozen veggies (which I've heard can be better than fresh) and played outside all the time - unlike so many kids today who stay inside glued to the set. I was never overweight then and I'm not now. I see PLENTY of grocery carts for smaller families in grocery stores piled high with quick-heat burritos and junk cookies - and the kids with the shoppers are grossly overweight for their age. The Dugger kids actually PLAY OUTSIDE, a concept lost on some of these kids now. I believe the mother said they don't even have a TV. My Catholic nieces are allowed to watch a few cartoons (classics like Scooby Doo), Animal Planet, the Food Network, and Disney movies - and this is at MY or MY MOTHER'S house, because they don't have a TV either. They draw, read, play house, and do crafts.
I got a well-deserved pop on the hand or bottom when I screwed up. I'm not on Oprah, whining about how my parents mistreated me and ruined my psyche. Nor am I mentally disturbed and under the care of a shrink, medicated on Adderall or whatever else they're pumping kids up with these days (which, interestingly enough, none of these kids were taking either).
The show said nothing specific about their beliefs (or even that they hit their kids!), other than that they prefer to associate with other families like theirs and they would like to see their children marry someone with similar values. I didn't hear them say they arranged marriages. I consider myself Christian and God-fearing, which means I'd really rather not associate with Satanists. I married a Christian, not an atheist. Does that make me scary? If what their eldest son said is indicative of their values, I think ANYONE would like to marry a guy like that!
Imagination? For Christmas one of the girls made an outfit for each of her sisters. How many eleven year olds do you know that can do that?
I want children to be happy, healthy, loved, and wanted. I think every one of those kids are. I don't subscribe to their religious beliefs, nor do I want any more than one or two kids, but I think their kids are happier than some typical nuclear families are. Those parents are indeed parenting - it's evident in the discipline the kids displayed. Just my opinion. Sorry to prattle.

Excellent post!!!

steph