How Many is Too Many

txkat · Jul 14, 2005

Exploding the over population myth:
www.ncpa.org/pd/pdint21.html
www.nifty-fifties.com/Facts/OverPop.htm
www.rense.com/politics6/overpop.htm

These sites appear to be editorials. The first one even claims "Much of the world's land surface is empty. . ." EMPTY?! Apparently, the author believes if people aren't occupying it, it's empty. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, of course. The fact is population has historically increased EXPONENTIALLY. Most of you have had college algebra, so you can picture what that looks like on a graph. I don't know how far we are from being unsustainable--50 years or 1,000,000 years, but I do know if we wait until we're almost there it will be too late. Personally, I'd rather err on the side of caution. Here's another site to check out: www.popconnect.com.

rn/writer, RN · Jul 14, 2005

quote from lilpeanut:

"would you think it was acceptable to put your child in a daycare where the ratio was 16:1?"

i don't know about you, but i don't see too many kids over the age of four or five in daycare.

are some of you saying that there is no such thing as a good large family? just because it isn't for you, does that mean it can't be for anyone? as far as i have seen, these folks are providing for their own needs without asking anyone else to give them a dime.

as for sending them all to college, who says that is a necessity. of our six kids, two went into the military to help finance their education, two paid their own way with loans, and two are working and saving to put themselves through school. none of them has "blown off" that first semester or year while learning to grow up. our two oldest daughters are full-time moms to beautiful, well-behaved children. one of the two home schools her kids. number three is a teacher and she also has a great kid. number four (a son) works full time and wants to become a firefighter paramedic. number five is aiming toward nursing school. number six (another son) hasn't yet decided where his interests lie but he knows the value of hard work. four-year college isn't for everyone. there are many alternatives for kids who are creative and motivated.

everyone is entitled to an opinion, but i found the intensely negative reaction of some posters depressing. there are those of us who see children (especially those raised in a happy home with caring parents) as a gift and an investment in the future rather than a burden and a drain on resources. a child who is brought up with love, discipline, respect, and productive habits can bring about much good in the world.

it's interesting to me that an unexpected off-shoot of china's one-child policy has been a generation of very self-centered kids. each child has two loving parents and four doting grandparents. all the family's hopes and attention are centered on a single individual who rarely has to share or compromise. as these kids come of age, they are choosing cars over bicycles, larger homes over smaller ones, store-bought goods for home-made items, and, in general, earning and spending at a rate that is shocking to the previous generations. just some food for thought.

miranda f.

LilPeanut, MSN, RN, NP · Jul 14, 2005

I see children as a gift too - it's rather condescending for you to assume those of us who think perhaps 16 is going too far do not.

My family is happy and we would have had one or two more perhaps if I didn't have the pg complications that I do, but it's to the attitude of "NO RESTRAINT! NO MODERATION!" I and others object.

Fat soluable are good for you. You must have them to live a happy, healthy life. But if you decide that if a little vitamin is good, then a LOT of vitamin must be great, you could easily kill yourself.

No, I do not see how any family of 12+ whose children are all under 18 can give proper time and attention to all of the children and let all of the children be children.

People should really read around about what this type of family believes in - switching, no dissent, no exposure to the outside world, no independence. These girls will grow up to have 12+ children themselves because they have no idea there are other options for them out there. They are taught they if they want to be good Godly women (and they've been brainwashed since birth to have this be their sole goal in life) that they should find a husband and start popping out the babies.

God gave us brains and free will for a reason, I choose to use mine instead of being a cultish quiverfull drone.

LilPeanut, MSN, RN, NP · Jul 14, 2005

Oh, this is nice from a qf site [ http://www.lotsofkids.com/LOK-Features/quiver/quiverfull.htm ]

Q: What if the doctor says another pregnancy will kill me?
A: This is the toughest of the tough, in my opinion. The first thing to ask is whether the threat is a real one. Many doctors overstate (often simply because they have been trained within a culture that assumes that having a large number of babies is "dangerous") the threat posed by pregnancy and childbirth, and often we are all too willing to take that "out" when in our hearts, we really don't WANT another child. The question I like to ask is, "What if this were a desperately-wanted first child? Would the risk be worth taking then?" (It bears mention that first-time mommies are at HIGHER risk of complications than the rest of us--including the "great-grandmultiparas" who're on baby #10-plus!) Some health risks ARE serious. Some can be minimized. Some are worth risking, if we want the child bad enough. A further point to consider is, again, the will of God. Is my life worth more than that of the child I'm carrying? Our pride, and our desire to mother our extant children, might scream "YES!", but the list of important people in human history whose mothers died in giving them birth runs into the hundreds--while the mothers' lives were hardly worthless, part of their worth was in the children they bore. Without those children, they might have lived another twenty or forty years in obscurity. Through the children, they have enriched a lot of lives. A long life is not necessarily the best life--hence we take some risks all the time, rather than staying cooped-up in our living rooms where we are "safe" and never touching a piece of chocolate.

Go on, risk life-threatening complications to have more kids, because your contribution to society might be your death.

DZcarrie · Jul 14, 2005

I would ask any of these "QF" people what God has to say about GREED!

They should all be required to stop in their local orphanage, where those precious little ones call every woman that comes in "mommy" and man "daddy" because they don't know their own parents. Then, be forced to see all of those little pumpkins cry and scream when they leave without them. :crying2:

Can you imagine being 4 or 5 years old and knowing that noone wants you as their own? Worse, being 12 or 13 and starting to believe that out of everyone on Earth, no one will ever adopt you. You will never have parents. But, these QF people "love children" so much that they'll take 35 or so...

There are so many children out there with NO ONE, and these people seem too ignorant to get beyond their "quivers" or whatever. If God put you on Earth to raise 20 kids, he sure wouldn't have a problem with some of them not carrying your DNA. What about those poor little kids? Didn't God want them to be born, too?

These websites make me sick.

teeituptom, BSN, RN · Jul 14, 2005

i think it is absolutely horrible and self-centered to have so many children. the world is overpopulated and there are too few resources to support those that are currently alive. i am not saying people should not have children, but sixteen is appalling. i think if you have enough money to support that many children that you should consider giving to those who are unable to support the few that they have.

I dont understand this view. This is a free country. Life, liberty, freedom of religion and the right to reproduce. If you can take care of them and love them and this is your belief then why not.

My wife and I raised 7 kids, she wanted more but her uterus finally fell out and had to be removed. but she wanted more. And we raised ours and did well enough at it.

donmomofnine · Jul 14, 2005

Amen, Tom and Miranda!:balloons:

LilPeanut, MSN, RN, NP · Jul 14, 2005

If you can take care of them and love them and this is your belief then why not.

Because the issue that many of us are taking is that they are not taking care of the children - their other children are. They are managing a child-run institution.

donmomofnine · Jul 14, 2005

I can only speak of my experience, but there are positive benefits to children helping each other. One of my older ones would take a younger one in the shower with them. They help each other complete their chores. They spend lots of time playing with each other. They share rooms (and LIKE IT! Can you believe that??) They learn a lot from this. Time after time when I went to parent teacher conferences I heard how loving, caring, compassionate, helpful my children were! They were identified at an early age as leaders. They are well mannered and I have always been complimented on their kindness and good manners, even as adults. They have big hearts and act generously and kindly toward each other and all people. I have a strong, loving, close relationship with all of my children, even the ones who do not live at home. I know there are people in the world who have these characteristics, but I know that my children were greatly influenced in a positive manner by growing up in a big family. RAsing my nine children with a wonderful husband has been my greatest joy in life and I wouldn't change a thing!:)

LilPeanut, MSN, RN, NP · Jul 14, 2005

There is a difference between helping and parenting. If a child has another child as their sole responsibility, they are parenting the child. Michelle apparently will care for the baby until they hit one, then they are assigned their "buddy" and the buddy watches over them.

HeartsOpenWide, RN · Jul 14, 2005

Ok, I heard about this on "The View" this morning and it got me thinking. A family in Arkansas is expecting their 16th child. Picture of Mum and children getting some sort of award. Then I remembered seeing the family on one of those Baby Story type shows. They were following the pregnancy and talking about the fun family times (like going to a restaurant on kids eat free night -- the restaurant has since limited the number of kids per adult).
I remember looking after a woman who had just delivered her 10th child. Anybody else see this as a trend or does it just depend on the area?

My husband is the second of 13 children. They get no help from the government. They are all home schooled ( they did go to a charter school for two years when MIL had twins) and benifit from it. My SIL graduated from H.S. at the charter school when she was sixteen. She tought an english class there last year, saving up her pay checks for college. I think in this situation there is nothing wrong. If they were getting goverment assistance while they continued to have kids would be another thing.

donmomofnine · Jul 14, 2005

All situations, parenting styles and families are different. That's why I only spoke about my own experience.:) That's why I don't like generalizations about large families. They are not all the same. Neither are small ones, for that matter!