House and Senate Democrats introduce legeslation to increase federal min. wage to $15/hr by 2025

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Hope this legislation gets passed. as $15.00/hr =  $ 31,200/ year  barely enough  to cover rent. heath insurance, food, clothing for a family --- as my one son has learned.

 

 

1 minute ago, MunoRN said:

I guess I didn't explain that very well; I pay them what they are worth and what they are worth is a livable wage.  

Interesting.   How did you determine the livable wage?

It sounds like that similar positions are paid the same.  But, a livable wage isn't the same for everyone.  Is $17 per hour a livable wage for a single parent with children?  You said in another post that it isn't.

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13 minutes ago, Beerman said:

Interesting.   How did you determine the livable wage?

It sounds like that similar positions are paid the same.  But, a livable wage isn't the same for everyone.  Is $17 per hour a livable wage for a single parent with children?  You said in another post that it isn't.

What is the point that you are trying to make? 

It is true that one capitalist business model is to pay your employees as little as is humanely and legally possible while extracting the maximum amount of value and profit (for the company) from their labor. That seems to be the model that you are promoting. 

There is already considerable evidence that the widening wealth inequality in this nation is having negative effects upon our society.  We should focus upon the evidence and seek remedies rather than focusing upon imagined negative consequences of taking action and doing nothing. IMV

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14 minutes ago, Beerman said:

Interesting.   How did you determine the livable wage?

It sounds like that similar positions are paid the same.  But, a livable wage isn't the same for everyone.  Is $17 per hour a livable wage for a single parent with children?  You said in another post that it isn't.

I find the MIT livable wage calculator to be reliable: Living Wage Calculator (mit.edu)

What I said in another post is that the base "livable wage" isn't necessarily intended to be a livable wage with children, nor should it be, it's supposed to be a starting point that makes a livable wage with children reasonably attainable at some point.  I have 2 positions that are just $17/hr, these are typically college students, I hire a third during the Summer.  Everyone else though ranges well above that with tips and the two salaried positions are about $30/hr to start.

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MunoRN, that for sharing the MIT Living Wage Calculator as it identifies common expenses food, insurance,  transportation, housing, taxes, etc into determining wage.  Accurate for my county based on knowledge of sons and nephews salaries/living situation.

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2 hours ago, MunoRN said:

I find the MIT livable wage calculator to be reliable: Living Wage Calculator (mit.edu)

What I said in another post is that the base "livable wage" isn't necessarily intended to be a livable wage with children, nor should it be, it's supposed to be a starting point that makes a livable wage with children reasonably attainable at some point.  I have 2 positions that are just $17/hr, these are typically college students, I hire a third during the Summer.  Everyone else though ranges well above that with tips and the two salaried positions are about $30/hr to start.

Perfect.  According to the MIT calculator, a single parent with one kid needs $25-35 an hour to make a "liveable wage"  depending on location. 

Let's say its $30 where you are.  One of your college students decides to quit school and make a career at your restaurant.  He/she ends up with a kid.  At what point do you give them that big raise to a "liveable wage" to do the same job they did for $17?

And, I am aware your tipped employees make great hourly,  but only 5 hours a day.   If they make $150 a day, and work 5 days a week,  that's $39k a year.   Sounds good to me for that job, but not a "liveable wage" for someone with children. That translates to $19 an hour for a 40 hour work week.

 

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2 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

It is true that one capitalist business model is to pay your employees as little as is humanely and legally possible while extracting the maximum amount of value and profit (for the company) from their labor. That seems to be the model that you are promoting. 

I'm not sure where you got that.  I've only argued that the govt shouldn't mandate what a business pays.  Most businesses, at least successful ones, know that treating employees well is good for their business.  The fact that raising the minimum wage to $15 would only benefit 10% of the working population speaks to that.

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Fair Labor Standards Act

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Overview

The national minimum wage was created by Congress under the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) in 1938. Congress enacted this legislation under its authority in Article I, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution: “The Congress shall have power to . . . regulate commerce . . . among the several states.” FLSA was a comprehensive federal scheme which provided for minimum wages, overtime pay, record keeping requirements, and child labor regulations. The purpose of the minimum wage was to stabilize the post-depression economy and protect the workers in the labor force. The minimum wage was designed to create a minimum standard of living to protect the health and well-being of employees.

Others have argued that the primary purpose was to aid the lowest paid of the nation's working population, those who lacked sufficient bargaining power to secure for themselves a minimum subsistence wage. FLSA specifically provided for a minimum wage for full time and part time, public and private sector workers. Specifically, workers who are “engaged in” or “in the production of goods for” interstate (commerce between the states) and foreign commerce.

 

Minimum Wage in America: A Timeline
 

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When Congress passed the Fair Labor Standards Act in 1938, it represented a major shift in labor policy. For the first time, the federal government set a minimum wage and established the principle that people—or at least those covered by the law—are entitled to at least a certain amount of pay for their work...

...One reason that the federal minimum wage provokes continuing controversy is that it doesn’t automatically adjust to the rising cost of living. “This means it is completely dependent upon political negotiations, and its level depended upon which forces had power,” explains Stephanie Luce, the chairperson and a professor in the School of Labor and Urban Studies at City University of New York. 

Since the first federal minimum wage was set in 1938, it has been raised 22 times by 12 different presidents. The history of the federal minimum wage is one of political struggle and labor conflict, and it actually begins in Europe, at least a century before the law was passed in the United States....

 

 

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1 hour ago, Beerman said:

Perfect.  According to the MIT calculator, a single parent with one kid needs $25-35 an hour to make a "liveable wage"  depending on location. 

Let's say its $30 where you are.  One of your college students decides to quit school and make a career at your restaurant.  He/she ends up with a kid.  At what point do you give them that big raise to a "liveable wage" to do the same job they did for $17?

And, I am aware your tipped employees make great hourly,  but only 5 hours a day.   If they make $150 a day, and work 5 days a week,  that's $39k a year.   Sounds good to me for that job, but not a "liveable wage" for someone with children. That translates to $19 an hour for a 40 hour work week.

 

Just wondering Beerman, what is it going to cost us in taxes for say Wisconsin and IOWA, now THAT YOU DO NOT NEED TO WEAR MASKS OR SOCIALLY DISTANCE ANYMORE! 

I imagine that there's going to be an increase in infection rates since those states appear to feel invulnerable due to cheese and potato consumption. Sort of like the Missouri republican woman who also like Trump, found a cure last year for Covid. 

Just asking because you appear to be good at calculations? 

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11 minutes ago, Curious1997 said:

Just wondering Beerman, what is it going to cost us in taxes for say Wisconsin and IOWA, now THAT YOU DO NOT NEED TO WEAR MASKS OR SOCIALLY DISTANCE ANYMORE! 

Just asking because you appear to be good at calculations? 

I'm more interested in the topic at hand.  I'd love to see your calculation you've done that backs up your belief that businesses can survive while paying the "liveable wage" of $25-30 dollars or more an hour to do low skilled work?

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1 hour ago, Beerman said:

I'm more interested in the topic at hand.  I'd love to see your calculation you've done that backs up your belief that businesses can survive while paying the "liveable wage" of $25-30 dollars or more an hour to do low skilled work?

Didn't do any calculations because I had already stated that it's market driven. Munro can pay his employees all he wants, but if his food or service is bad, he's not going to get or keep customers and he's out of business. 

I also clearly stated that it's the culture that's to blame. If the migrants who come here are able to get menial jobs, live in dubious conditions, pool their money and manage to only buy the necessary until they can afford better, then so can Americans! 

It's an American thing SOLELY! 

No other society gets into this crap! It's a culture of greed because Americans are empty, superficial and insightless! 

I come from affluence, but have European parents! You only got what you earned. Never had an allowance. Do chores and earn money! 

I don't dare give my parents lip because there are boundaries, but I can go home anytime I feel like and live there because I know that they always have my back. My father came here from England married to a woman who's one quarter Irish and they began as technicians and janitors, despite having their degrees which you don't pay for by the way in the UK in those times. Law school with his own firm and a mom who's a history professor. 

Pay as you go! Plan carefully! They didn't go back to England for fifteen years despite my grandparents being reasonably wealthy in their own right and could easily have sent tickets to take care of my parents. But Swedish, Danish grandparents also, Pay as you go! Tough wonderful, emotionally stunted people! 

I believe in experience, building emotional muscles! I drive an old hand me down car even though I can easily afford a new car, but I can repair my own car. No payments because I own everything including my own house because of my parents guidance and messaging. Nothing was ever bought on credit in their day and they passed that along. 

The biggest message from my parents and grandparents is, we don't allow anyone to tell us how to feel! That makes all the difference in the world! 

If immigrants can do it, then so can we. Just need to change the messaging! Change the perspectives and do what Europe does. Socialism works incredibly well! They are as capitalistic as any American, but they don't see or use money in the same way as Americans. 

 

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2 hours ago, Beerman said:

I'm more interested in the topic at hand.  I'd love to see your calculation you've done that backs up your belief that businesses can survive while paying the "liveable wage" of $25-30 dollars or more an hour to do low skilled work?

Just because something low skill doesn't mean that it isn't necessary due to societal demands, if it's a job that needs to be done it doesn't matter how much skill it takes. People that hold "menial" jobs should be able to live just like any of us. There is so much more to life than work, and our obsession with what we do and our self image is often detrimental to our happiness.

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33 minutes ago, TheMoonisMyLantern said:

Just because something low skill doesn't mean that it isn't necessary due to societal demands, if it's a job that needs to be done it doesn't matter how much skill it takes. People that hold "menial" jobs should be able to live just like any of us. There is so much more to life than work, and our obsession with what we do and our self image is often detrimental to our happiness.

Yes, but should a business owner be required to pay someone $30 an hour for a job that requires little skill or education, and if he/she cant afford that then go out of business?

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