Here's what AAs really think of CRNAs

Specialties CRNA

Published

And this comes from the PRESIDENT of the American Society of Anesthesiologist Assistants

Again, assertions that AAs and CRNAs function at the same level -absolutely misleading.

And, what's with "anesthesia nurse"? If it sounds condescending in print, can you imagine how it would sound out of his mouth? What arrogance.

At least there is a phone number listed at the end of the article. Let's call Rob and let him know what we think of his little article!

Read carefully, SRNAs, this is a grim foreboding...

Licensed anesthesiologist assistants help access to medical care

By Rob Wagner

MY VIEW

Re: "Don't weaken the standards for anesthesia providers" (My View, April 11).

Maybe you or someone you know has had surgery delayed. Perhaps hospitals in your

area have closed operating rooms as they have in Miami, Jacksonville, Tampa and

elsewhere in Florida.

One reason for growing problems of this nature for patients is a shortage of

anesthesia providers. These are the assistants who help

physician-anesthesiologists perform the critical task of putting you to sleep

before surgery.

There is a common-sense solution rapidly making progress in the Florida

Legislature and around the country, which is to license anesthesiologist

assistants (called AAs). Key legislative action is expected today in Florida's

House Health Care Committee on HB 1381/SB 2332 and it is important that

lawmakers support it.

They need to be assured that this legislation will not weaken standards because

AAs are highly trained and perform the same function as anesthesia nurses. AAs

like myself serve patients in 16 states and have impeccable safety records. AAs

have worked with a high level of safety for 30 years in Georgia and Ohio.

AAs are required to have three times the hands-on, clinical training than are

most anesthesia nurses who currently assist anesthesiologists. Before we are

allowed to enter AA school, we must take the same courses physicians take as

pre-med students. Nurses do not do that. In fact, as the chief anesthetist at

St. Joseph's Hospital in Atlanta, I am in charge of both AAs and anesthesia

nurses.

If you are "going under," who would you rather have assisting the

anesthesiologist; someone trained to work directly with him or her, or a nurse?

We enjoy our professional relationships with our nursing colleagues. Yet nursing

organizations in Florida continue to misinform, even scare the public, calling

our profession "new" and "experimental."

Try telling that to the prestigious Emory University in Atlanta or Case Western

in Cleveland, which have been training AAs for more than three decades. Or try

to tell that to boards of medicine that oversee AAs in the states in which we

practice and whose members readily vouch for our safety record.

Try telling that to Medicare, the nation's largest health insurer, which

reimburses AAs and anesthesia nurses at the same rate. This means our skill

levels are viewed equally. And tell the insurance companies. They charge no

difference in fees between anesthesia nurses and AAs,

meaning our safety records are equal. Try telling that to the Florida Medical

Association, American Medical Association and American Society of

Anesthesiologists, whose members resoundingly support our working in Florida. In

the era of malpractice crisis, doctors are certainly not going to support

"experimental" health care providers.

Why, then, would the anesthesia nurses be opposed to this? In a word, money.

Because of nurse shortages, their salaries are artificially high, up to $150,000

in Florida. If you made that kind of living, wouldn't you try to keep the

competition out?

This nursing shortage is well documented on the Web sites of Florida schools

that train anesthesia nurses, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services,

and yes, even on the anesthesia nurses' own Web site, http://www.aana.org, where the

shortage is called "serious" and "acute."

To help relieve the problem, two institutions, the University of Florida and

Nova Southeastern, are ready to open special schools for anesthesiologist

assistants in Florida. Would those schools offer programs if they didn't think

AAs are in great demand? Would they risk their reputations on an "experimental"

profession? Of course not.

One AA can mean five more patients per day will get their surgery. That's 1,200

patients per year treated with the help of only one AA. If you are or know one

of those patients, I'm sure you would be grateful to the Florida Legislature for

passing this common-sense legislation.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rob Wagner is chief anesthetist at St. Joseph's Hospital in Atlanta and

president of the American Academy of Anesthesiologist Assistants, PO Box 13978

Tallahassee, FL 32317 Phone: 656-8848.

Just read this whole thread - wow.

Brief intro: I'm an SICU nurse of 5 years, finishing the BSN bridge this semester and have interviewed for a CRNA program this fall.

Deepz, I've enjoyed your posts greatly, and you've given me some real insight into the politics underlying this issue.

My two cents: I think that any anesthesia provider without significant "bedside" type experience (MDA and AA) is going to be at a disadvantage for some time when beginning practice. An example is this semester when I shadowed a CRNA for 180 hours as part of the BSN coursework. It was in an "anesthesia team" practice with 1 MDA overseeing around four rooms that could have CRNA's or MDA-residents. When providing a lunch break to an MDA-resident with a CRNA for a CABG case I witnessed firsthand why the CRNA's spoke so poorly of some of the residents... ACT's not done timely, proper meds not drawn up and ready, Nitro gtt infusing onto the floor, dosing "cheat sheet" w/ wrong pt. weight, etc. Basically a comedy of novice mistakes and general disorganization. And this provider would soon be in a sort of "supervisory" role as she was in the latter half of her last year. For what it's worth, I think all the talk of prereq's and such is of far less concern than actual hands-on experience. Time management and organization is so much more critical in anesthesia.

The difference is that anesthesia residents are still learning - the CRNA's have already finished their educational program.

As far as Rayman's post - total BS. Don't throw the HIPAA crap up. All that shows is that you're probably making it up and trying to use that as an excuse not to include any identifying info (feel free to PM me with specifics - not that I have any illusions that you would have the guts to do that).

jwk,

I tried to pm you, but it says your box is full and it won't accept it until you delete some stuff...

ps..empty your box if you really want pm's

The box is now empty.
The difference is that anesthesia residents are still learning - the CRNA's have already finished their educational program.

The good news about CRNAs is that we have a structured curriculum and preceptors assigned to keep us from enacting the scenario portrayed above. As my father-in-law, a urologist, says "no one wants a first year anesthesia resident."

Specializes in ECMO.
[sarcasm on]

a way to solve the problem is simply this:

have all AA's take the CRNA exam and whoever passes becomes a CRNA/AA. have all CRNA's take the AA exam and " "

so if an AA new grad can pass the CRNA exam then the CRNA's can shut up, and if a CRNA new grad can pass the AA exam then the AA's can shut up and stop the arguing on both sides

now can a CRNA or AA pass the boards that the MDA has to pass??????

(this should also be done for NP/PAs.........)

[/sarcasm]

:lol2:

I am a firm believer that anyone that is smart which Im sure all of us (SRNA, CRNA,AA) are then anyone can pass any test if they work hard, are dedicated, diligent, and study their a$$ off. Thats just me though.

Specializes in ECMO.
I am a firm believer that anyone that is smart which Im sure all of us (SRNA, CRNA,AA) are then anyone can pass any test if they work hard, are dedicated, diligent, and study their a$$ off. Thats just me though.

true dat. the titles may be different, but the title doesnt necessarily indicate the most qualified provider. if that were true then MD's would be the best at.......EVERYTHING :lol2:

[sarcasm on]

a way to solve the problem is simply this:

have all AA's take the CRNA exam and whoever passes becomes a CRNA/AA. have all CRNA's take the AA exam and " "

so if an AA new grad can pass the CRNA exam then the CRNA's can shut up, and if a CRNA new grad can pass the AA exam then the AA's can shut up and stop the arguing on both sides

now can a CRNA or AA pass the boards that the MDA has to pass??????

(this should also be done for NP/PAs.........)

[/sarcasm]

:lol2:

Believe it or not, many years ago several AA's offered to challenge the CRNA exam and were turned down.

Well the difference is nurses have a 4 year lic degree before the crna course .

This damned horse has been kicked over and over and *someone* keeps resuscitating it.....

Will someone PLEASE shoot it in the head and put it out of it's (my, our) misery.

WHERE are the moderators of this forum????

:eek:

How true IS it that the salary of a nurse anaesthetist is $500 per hour? How much you're going to spend to become a CRNA? thank you...

Specializes in Anesthesia.
How true IS it that the salary of a nurse anaesthetist is $500 per hour? How much you're going to spend to become a CRNA? thank you...

You must be thinking of AAs.

!

Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
How true IS it that the salary of a nurse anaesthetist is $500 per hour? How much you're going to spend to become a CRNA? thank you...

It is patently untrue - I think you've added an extra 0 to the figure.

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