Published
And this comes from the PRESIDENT of the American Society of Anesthesiologist Assistants
Again, assertions that AAs and CRNAs function at the same level -absolutely misleading.
And, what's with "anesthesia nurse"? If it sounds condescending in print, can you imagine how it would sound out of his mouth? What arrogance.
At least there is a phone number listed at the end of the article. Let's call Rob and let him know what we think of his little article!
Read carefully, SRNAs, this is a grim foreboding...
Licensed anesthesiologist assistants help access to medical care
By Rob Wagner
MY VIEW
Re: "Don't weaken the standards for anesthesia providers" (My View, April 11).
Maybe you or someone you know has had surgery delayed. Perhaps hospitals in your
area have closed operating rooms as they have in Miami, Jacksonville, Tampa and
elsewhere in Florida.
One reason for growing problems of this nature for patients is a shortage of
anesthesia providers. These are the assistants who help
physician-anesthesiologists perform the critical task of putting you to sleep
before surgery.
There is a common-sense solution rapidly making progress in the Florida
Legislature and around the country, which is to license anesthesiologist
assistants (called AAs). Key legislative action is expected today in Florida's
House Health Care Committee on HB 1381/SB 2332 and it is important that
lawmakers support it.
They need to be assured that this legislation will not weaken standards because
AAs are highly trained and perform the same function as anesthesia nurses. AAs
like myself serve patients in 16 states and have impeccable safety records. AAs
have worked with a high level of safety for 30 years in Georgia and Ohio.
AAs are required to have three times the hands-on, clinical training than are
most anesthesia nurses who currently assist anesthesiologists. Before we are
allowed to enter AA school, we must take the same courses physicians take as
pre-med students. Nurses do not do that. In fact, as the chief anesthetist at
St. Joseph's Hospital in Atlanta, I am in charge of both AAs and anesthesia
nurses.
If you are "going under," who would you rather have assisting the
anesthesiologist; someone trained to work directly with him or her, or a nurse?
We enjoy our professional relationships with our nursing colleagues. Yet nursing
organizations in Florida continue to misinform, even scare the public, calling
our profession "new" and "experimental."
Try telling that to the prestigious Emory University in Atlanta or Case Western
in Cleveland, which have been training AAs for more than three decades. Or try
to tell that to boards of medicine that oversee AAs in the states in which we
practice and whose members readily vouch for our safety record.
Try telling that to Medicare, the nation's largest health insurer, which
reimburses AAs and anesthesia nurses at the same rate. This means our skill
levels are viewed equally. And tell the insurance companies. They charge no
difference in malpractice insurance fees between anesthesia nurses and AAs,
meaning our safety records are equal. Try telling that to the Florida Medical
Association, American Medical Association and American Society of
Anesthesiologists, whose members resoundingly support our working in Florida. In
the era of malpractice crisis, doctors are certainly not going to support
"experimental" health care providers.
Why, then, would the anesthesia nurses be opposed to this? In a word, money.
Because of nurse shortages, their salaries are artificially high, up to $150,000
in Florida. If you made that kind of living, wouldn't you try to keep the
competition out?
This nursing shortage is well documented on the Web sites of Florida schools
that train anesthesia nurses, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services,
and yes, even on the anesthesia nurses' own Web site, http://www.aana.org, where the
shortage is called "serious" and "acute."
To help relieve the problem, two institutions, the University of Florida and
Nova Southeastern, are ready to open special schools for anesthesiologist
assistants in Florida. Would those schools offer programs if they didn't think
AAs are in great demand? Would they risk their reputations on an "experimental"
profession? Of course not.
One AA can mean five more patients per day will get their surgery. That's 1,200
patients per year treated with the help of only one AA. If you are or know one
of those patients, I'm sure you would be grateful to the Florida Legislature for
passing this common-sense legislation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Wagner is chief anesthetist at St. Joseph's Hospital in Atlanta and
president of the American Academy of Anesthesiologist Assistants, PO Box 13978
Tallahassee, FL 32317 Phone: 656-8848.
Nitecap
While i understand how this might get frustrating to the people who have been on this forum for sometime, i have to totally disagree. The utility of keeping this thread alive (for those who want to learn about it) should be obvious. For those who are not interested, dont read the thread, its that easy.
Enlightening new people in the CRNA profession (or like myself people about to enter) about the political issues and how it is relevant to their future is invaluable. These threads serve more than just a place to rattle swords, they also cause inquiry by newbies who may currently be isolated from the contraversies within the field of anesthesia. As someone comming into the profession, I had NO idea that it was as hard fought and tried as it has been; and no doubt will be. Increasing awareness of how important it is to be active in the association (read: politically) can be nothing but helpful to all CRNAs.
In fact, let me quote you from a post you made on this very board.
Thread: https://allnurses.com/forums/f16/atten-future-crnas-threatened-103868.html
Ok peeps listen up, I am an SRNA now finally and am pumped. Im not sure how much CRNA politics you guys are farmiliar with but I encourage you whether you are a CRNA, SRNA or future SRNA to learn as much about this as possible. Legislation in Florida and other states is ongoing that may one day effect you and your dreams.
Feeling kind of wishy-washy huh Nitecap?
First you are all gung ho as demonstrated by your first post on page two.
https://allnurses.com/forums/f16/question-about-aas-148907-2.html
Now you are saying it's dumb to revive the forum.
Make up your mind.
Feeling kind of wishy-washy huh Nitecap?First you are all gung ho as demonstrated by your first post on page two.
https://allnurses.com/forums/f16/question-about-aas-148907-2.html
Now you are saying it's dumb to revive the forum.
Make up your mind.
Nah Im as gung ho as they come. I have debated this issue till blue in the face here and on other forums. Though a good one just feel that when a thread dies out months and months ago that reviving it again is ineffective b/c people end up aurguing or disagreeing with posts that were posted forever ago and half the time that poster wont even respond. Start a new thread and go off be my guest, I will even contribute no doubt. This forum does need to be revived and I feel like you may feel the same way.
And dont take shots at me "wishy-washy", dont forget we are on the same side here.
NitecapWhile i understand how this might get frustrating to the people who have been on this forum for sometime, i have to totally disagree. The utility of keeping this thread alive (for those who want to learn about it) should be obvious. For those who are not interested, dont read the thread, its that easy.
Enlightening new people in the CRNA profession (or like myself people about to enter) about the political issues and how it is relevant to their future is invaluable. These threads serve more than just a place to rattle swords, they also cause inquiry by newbies who may currently be isolated from the contraversies within the field of anesthesia. As someone comming into the profession, I had NO idea that it was as hard fought and tried as it has been; and no doubt will be. Increasing awareness of how important it is to be active in the association (read: politically) can be nothing but helpful to all CRNAs.
In fact, let me quote you from a post you made on this very board.
Thread: https://allnurses.com/forums/f16/atten-future-crnas-threatened-103868.html
Ok peeps listen up, I am an SRNA now finally and am pumped. Im not sure how much CRNA politics you guys are farmiliar with but I encourage you whether you are a CRNA, SRNA or future SRNA to learn as much about this as possible. Legislation in Florida and other states is ongoing that may one day effect you and your dreams.
I'm all about education and debate. Lord knows I am. But here is the difference. Those who want to learn about something presented in this forum need to do exactly what you did; go back and do research on what's already been discussed. Read every post line by line and you will learn what the debate is all about. If you have questions at that point, by all means ask. I guarantee (because this has happened before) we will have a new "CRNA vs. AA" thread EVERY WEEK just for the sake of "we need to educate those who are choosing this profession" and "we have the right to debate". Debate is healthy when knowledge is present before one debates. You get the knowledge by reviewing past threads which I suggest all the newbies (those who haven't started classes yet) do. Oh yeah, congrats on your acceptance in CRNA school. Where did you decide to go?
Just something to toss out to the hungry...I was speaking with an MDA last week, in the interest of HIPAA we'll leave it at that, and he wanted to talk to me because one of my co-workers told him I was soon off to na school. He comes from an "AA state" and he brought them up of his own accord and I will quote him as accurately as I remember: "AA's are just college graduates. They are like little robots that you can stick in a room and let them do the standard stuff. It is much better to be a crna. He's laughs and says again they are just little robot college grads." I'm not trying to cut anyone down. Never met an AA, sure they are nice folks. I just found his unsolicited commentary interesting.
Now this is an excellent post/point
The thing is, this is exactly what the history of of CRNA vs MDA has been. They want robots and CRNAs want autonomy and responsibility.
Im surprised you has someone suggest a CRNA was better. Cool fellow and clearly a team player in the best interest of the patient.
Just something to toss out to the hungry...I was speaking with an MDA last week, in the interest of HIPAA we'll leave it at that, and he wanted to talk to me because one of my co-workers told him I was soon off to na school. He comes from an "AA state" and he brought them up of his own accord and I will quote him as accurately as I remember: "AA's are just college graduates. They are like little robots that you can stick in a room and let them do the standard stuff. It is much better to be a crna. He's laughs and says again they are just little robot college grads." I'm not trying to cut anyone down. Never met an AA, sure they are nice folks. I just found his unsolicited commentary interesting.
MmacFN
556 Posts
Brian
If you want to understand why it is that there is friction between MDA and CRNA then you need to read watchful care. You can get it on amazon. This is the history of CRNAs and documents how MDAs have consistantly attempted to either make it illegal (via practicing medicine without a liscence) or totally restricted. This is a long standing political battle that still rages today. You may not see it in the OR because these groups have developed working relationships. However, be sure that the physician association for anesthesia is working daily to limit, restrict and remove CRNAs.
As for AAs? That topic is seperate. Imagine spending 60-70 years fighting for your place in anesthesia care vs physicians; literally challenged legally in every state in the union and then federally. Imagine fighting that constantly against a rich physician group that tends to stick togeather like glue? It is a tough road that came before us, we are on (or soon to be on :)) and its a long road ahead. Imagine now that some upstart group (read: AAs) walks in and says they can do your job with less than 1/2 the education and none of the experience?? This is NOT acceptable and cheapens the fighting CRNAs have historically done to get where they are today. You should be more than upset, you should be angry that they arrogantly post on their website that they are as safe, as educated and as efficient as a CRNA is. These are people looking to take your job. Wouldnt you be upset tommorrow if the hospital decided that a new training program for CCT critical care techs was going to help solve the RN shortage by taking ICU jobs? After all, if we do a crash course in ICU and Healthcare/nursing for one year, isnt that as good as any ICU nurse?
Dont forget, associations and their politics are what have given professions what they have and fight to maintain it.