Health Care is a right

[headsup]

I would do a poll on this, but I do not know how to - or maybe you need to be a premium member.

At any rate, I would like to hear some discussion on whether you feel health care is a right or not.

I personally do.

[Onekidneynurse]

Actually the public option is popular. Most polls I've read come in at a 62% plurality. Rasmussen and Fox are outliers because of question wording problems and essentially polling the GOP base only...

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2009/10/poll_support_gr.html

BTW we elect representatives to govern......

And probably 50% of them don't even know what the public option entails because Congress doesn't even know.:D:D

[Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN]

'Gigantic, unintelligible, unaffordable, over-regulatory, federal legislation'

After 13 days of secret, closed-door negotiations on health care legislation, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) announced Monday that he had reached an agreement with Senators Chris Dodd (D-MT) and Max Baucus (D-CT), and three top administration officials. Unfortunately, Senator Reid did not tell the American people much else.

Even many lawmakers remain in the dark regarding the outcome of this "secret deal that Senator Reid wants to get passed and signed into law 'this year,'" writes Heritage Senate Relations expert Brian Darling. Mitch McConnell, the Senate minority leader, summed it up: "It will be a thousand-page, trillion-dollar bill that raises premiums, raises taxes and slashes Medicare for our seniors to create new government spending programs. That's not reform."

Even as some of the final details of the bill do go public, it is likely that lawmakers won't know in advance entirely what it is they are voting on. This is because the legislation the Senate Finance Committee "agreed" to -- all 1,502 pages of it -- is the most massive piece of legislation ever introduced by Congress.

But length isn't the only record the "America's Healthy Future Act of 2009" claims, as Heritage health policy analyst Ed Haislmaier notes. "For the first time in fifteen years, [Congress] has set a new all-time division record for gigantic, unintelligible, unaffordable, over-regulatory, federal legislation."

What we do know about Reid's 'secret deal'

Although Senator Reid did not go into great detail about the health care "reform" legislation, he did mention that bill includes a government-run health insurance "option" that would "compete" against private health plans.

In an attempt to gain much-needed support from skeptical moderates in both parties, liberals have added a new twist to the "public option": a provision allowing states to opt out of the program. This would require states to pass legislation by 2014 rejecting participation in the federal government run plan.

But this new wrinkle is really more of the same, warns Heritage health policy analyst Nina Owcharenko. "This latest Senate ploy creates the illusion of an 'option' rather than making any fundamental changes to the controversial proposal."

Owcharenko explains why this "opt-out" model is just another government-run plan that is guaranteed to fail:

1. States can only opt-out of the government-run plan, not the entire bill. But the rest of the bill contains hundreds of provisions, such as the expansion of Medicaid, which will place major financial burdens on the states.
   

1. It is still a government-run plan because the government will require non-participating states to meet federal conditions. These government-determined conditions could include the creation of state-level public options that mirror the federal plan.
   

1. States will likely select the public "option" because of the bureaucracy and enormous administrative complexity required for a state opt-out. Federal conditions will limit states' ability to create alternatives.
   

1. State innovation will suffer under the massive health care proposal's employer and individual mandates, and government micromanagement of an industry that represents one-sixth of our economy.
   

So even though the states would be able to "opt out" of the government-run health insurance program, the federal government will make it very difficult to do so. And for the few states that do succeed in withdrawing, the government will still dominate their health care systems.

A true state "opt-out" provision would allow states to opt out of the bill in its entirety, argues Owcharenko. "Any other opt-out is just another shell game that is intended to appear as a concession but in reality provides for greater federal control and blocks much needed structural changes."

http://www.myheritage.org/

(I am a member of Heritage and DO have permission to reprint this)

steph

[FLmomof5]

I know that. But if you have the votes to pass then pass don't let it go to fillibuster.

If you have 60 votes, a filibuster won't happen, it will pass....but, thank God, they don't have it. Ol Lieberman is going to support the Republicans. The Blue Dogs aren't going for it either.

[Onekidneynurse]

If you have 60 votes, a filibuster won't happen, it will pass....but, thank God, they don't have it. Ol Lieberman is going to support the Republicans. The Blue Dogs aren't going for it either.

That's been my stance all along. People here say it will pass and yet they are worried about a fillibuster. The two are incompatiable.

[HM2VikingRN, RN]

This is going to go budget reconciliation.....

Its not marxist nor is it even socialist. We can't afford to keep flushing 20% plus of our health care dollars down the administration/profit pipe....

[Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN]

HM2VikingRN: Actually the public option is popular. Most polls I've read come in at a 62% plurality. Rasmussen and Fox are outliers because of question wording problems and essentially polling the GOP base only...

No actually this can happen in any poll - there was one recently where it looked good for Dems but the sample was skewed with mostly Democrats. (I'll have to look for it - it is only a week or so old).

I did come across this:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100014891/barack-obama-has-failed-to-defeat-conservatism-in-america/

"This week’s striking Gallup Poll on political ideology is further confirmation that the United States is in essence a conservative nation, which has ironically become even more conservative under Barack Obama. According to Gallup, 40 percent of Americans describe their political views as conservative, 36 percent as moderate and 20 percent as liberal. This is the first time conservatives have outnumbered moderates in America since 2004.. . ."

Here is the Gallup poll:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/123854/Conservatives-Maintain-Edge-Top-Ideological-Group.aspx

October 26, 2009

Conservatives Maintain Edge as Top Ideological Group

Compared with 2008, more Americans “conservative” in general, and on issues

by Lydia Saad

PRINCETON, NJ -- Conservatives continue to outnumber moderates and liberals in the American populace in 2009, confirming a finding that Gallup first noted in June. Forty percent of Americans describe their political views as conservative, 36% as moderate, and 20% as liberal. This marks a shift from 2005 through 2008, when moderates were tied with conservatives as the most prevalent group.

"Changes among political independents appear to be the main reason the percentage of conservatives has increased nationally over the past year: the 35% of independents describing their views as conservative in 2009 is up from 29% in 2008."

[Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN]

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/10/27/for-first-time-under-obama-majority-says-u-s-is-on-wrong-track/

"On health care, 42 percent say the reform plan Obama is pushing is a bad idea, 38 percent say it's a good idea and 16 percent have no opinion, with another 4 percent unsure. That's about the same as last month. But even though a plurality of those polled believe the cost of their health care will go up under an overhaul of the system, 45 percent say it is better to pass his plan compared to 39 percent who disagree.

Forty-eight percent disapprove Obama's handling of the health care issue while 43 percent approve with 9 percent undecided, a ratio that has grown more negative since last month. But Republicans can take no solace in that because 64 percent disapprove of their performance on the issue compared to 23 percent who approve and 13 percent who are undecided. Those are about the same numbers that the poll found last month."

steph

[dscrn]

Is it me...or has this tread gone way off topic?

[Onekidneynurse]

Is it me...or has this tread gone way off topic?

Nope we've pretty much deceided heathcare is not a right. Just chatting now.

[Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN]

Nope we've pretty much deceided heathcare is not a right. Just chatting now.

Right . . and all the stuff we are chatting about is just further proof why making health care a right is a baaad idea.

So, it is on topic.

steph

[K98]

The thread is only off-topic when the free-everything-for-everyone crowd isn't dominating it.

[Onekidneynurse]

The thread is only off-topic when the free-everything-for-everyone crowd isn't dominating it.

Isn't it interesting that no one has offered the OP a way to do a poll. Are we all afraid of those results?