Health Care is a right

Nurses Activism

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I would do a poll on this, but I do not know how to - or maybe you need to be a premium member.

At any rate, I would like to hear some discussion on whether you feel health care is a right or not.

I personally do.

Specializes in thinking about being a PA instead, now.

The rest of the world, both rich and undeveloped countries, know and understand this. :yeah:

It's only the USA that doesn't:

Universal health care is implemented in all industrialized countries, with the exception of the United States. It is also provided in many developing countries.

source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care

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The rest of the world, both rich and undeveloped countries, know and understand this. :yeah:

It's only the USA that doesn't:

Universal health care is implemented in all industrialized countries, with the exception of the United States. It is also provided in many developing countries.

source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care

We wanted to be INDEPENDENT that's why we started the REVOLUTIONARY WAR. Remember? Why don't these other countries follow us into Iraq and Afghanistan? New Zealand went away from Universal Healthcare and many other socialist programs. They are one of the few countries who didn't suffer as much in the recent/current financial crisis.

As for wikipedia could you have found a worse source?

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Specializes in LTC.
We wanted to be INDEPENDENT that's why we started the REVOLUTIONARY WAR. Remember? Why don't these other countries follow us into Iraq and Afghanistan? New Zealand went away from Universal Healthcare and many other socialist programs. They are one of the few countries who didn't suffer as much in the recent/current financial crisis.

As for wikipedia could you have found a worse source?

How is she supposed to "remember" the Revolutionary War? ;)

I would suspect that the reason these "other countries" don't "follow us into Iraq and Afghanistan" is because they are unwinnable money pits. The cost of both wars is expected to reach 3 trillion by 2011 and the cost in lives both civilian and military continues to rise.

New Zealand has a Universal Health Care system and they are not going to discontinue it. Other developed nations realize that it is a right, it's time for the United States to realize it too and make it happen.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights

Article 25:

1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

Undoubtedly, some American nurses (and perhaps foreign nurses as well) will read this and scoff, I want to remind you all that we are a part of this world. It's time for us to drop the American exceptionalism nonsense.

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Specializes in thinking about being a PA instead, now.
We wanted to be INDEPENDENT that's why we started the REVOLUTIONARY WAR. Remember? Why don't these other countries follow us into Iraq and Afghanistan? New Zealand went away from Universal Healthcare and many other socialist programs. They are one of the few countries who didn't suffer as much in the recent/current financial crisis.

As for wikipedia could you have found a worse source?

Yes, I could have gone to FoxNews. Or some other Republican fearmongering site. :jester:

Also, NZ has more sheep than people. I think the vets there are a happy bunch. :loveya:

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So what, the democrat party has more sheep than people as well. So what's your point?

Yes, I could have gone to FoxNews. Or some other Republican fearmongering site. :jester:

Also, NZ has more sheep than people. I think the vets there are a happy bunch. :loveya:

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Undoubtedly, some American nurses (and perhaps foreign nurses as well) will read this and scoff, I want to remind you all that we are a part of this world. It's time for us to drop the American exceptionalism nonsense.

Sounds like you're advocating for a one world government type thing. No thanks! The UN can publish whatever it wants to, we're not bound by it. We have a little thing we like to call sovereignty, and I'd like to think we won't let someone give that away without a fight, and then we'd fight to get it back. Our system isn't perfect, but it is ours. I don't care how socialized other countries are, it's contrary to our Constitution.

I love the use of the word "entitled". In order for the government to give you something, it first has to take it away from someone else (unless the government "owns" a business that's making a profit and has no need to tax its citizens). The top 1% of income earners in this country pay right around 40% of all federal income taxes. What if those 1% of income earners decided they were tired of being the government's cash cow? They certainly can afford to not take an income for a year or two, and they can afford to leave. What kind of statement would that make?

Nancy Pelosi's health care proposal is right around the $1 TRILLION dollar mark over ten years (you can probably double that number and be closer to the actual cost). There are just over 300 million citizens here. That's a little over $3 Million per citizen, how's that for expensive health insurance? With $3 Million, I wouldn't have to go to work again...ever...and I'd be able to afford the best "cadillac" health insurance premiums out there. Don't be fooled, this isn't about health insurance coverage, it's about control and political power.

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Specializes in LTC.
I don't care how socialized other countries are, it's contrary to our Constitution.

No it's not. I'd like for you to specifically cite the part of the Constitution that opposes universal health care.

I love the use of the word "entitled". In order for the government to give you something, it first has to take it away from someone else (unless the government "owns" a business that's making a profit and has no need to tax its citizens). The top 1% of income earners in this country pay right around 40% of all federal income taxes. What if those 1% of income earners decided they were tired of being the government's cash cow? They certainly can afford to not take an income for a year or two, and they can afford to leave. What kind of statement would that make?

The government collects taxes and in turn provide services by the consent of the people.

Don't worry about the top 1%. Where would they go? Why would they leave a nation that caters to their every whim and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future?

Nancy Pelosi's health care proposal is right around the $1 TRILLION dollar mark over ten years (you can probably double that number and be closer to the actual cost). There are just over 300 million citizens here. That's a little over $3 Million per citizen, how's that for expensive health insurance? With $3 Million, I wouldn't have to go to work again...ever...and I'd be able to afford the best "cadillac" health insurance premiums out there. Don't be fooled, this isn't about health insurance coverage, it's about control and political power.

There is an element of control in every large entity. Large corporations certainly excercize it as well as governments. You're right, we would be giving a bit more control to our government and in exchange they would help us become a country that offers everyone the right to health care.

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No it's not. I'd like for you to specifically cite the part of the Constitution that opposes universal health care.

The government collects taxes and in turn provide services by the consent of the people.

Don't worry about the top 1%. Where would they go? Why would they leave a nation that caters to their every whim and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future?

There is an element of control in every large entity. Large corporations certainly excercize it as well as governments. You're right, we would be giving a bit more control to our government and in exchange they would help us become a country that offers everyone the right to health care.

Can you site the part of the Constitution that proposes universal health care.

Pelosi is still gonna leave out 12 Million people. How will that work. Who will be DENIED universal health care?

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Sounds like you're advocating for a one world government type thing. No thanks! The UN can publish whatever it wants to, we're not bound by it. We have a little thing we like to call sovereignty, and I'd like to think we won't let someone give that away without a fight, and then we'd fight to get it back. Our system isn't perfect, but it is ours. I don't care how socialized other countries are, it's contrary to our Constitution.

I love the use of the word "entitled". In order for the government to give you something, it first has to take it away from someone else (unless the government "owns" a business that's making a profit and has no need to tax its citizens). The top 1% of income earners in this country pay right around 40% of all federal income taxes. What if those 1% of income earners decided they were tired of being the government's cash cow? They certainly can afford to not take an income for a year or two, and they can afford to leave. What kind of statement would that make?

Nancy Pelosi's health care proposal is right around the $1 TRILLION dollar mark over ten years (you can probably double that number and be closer to the actual cost). There are just over 300 million citizens here. That's a little over $3 Million per citizen, how's that for expensive health insurance? With $3 Million, I wouldn't have to go to work again...ever...and I'd be able to afford the best "cadillac" health insurance premiums out there. Don't be fooled, this isn't about health insurance coverage, it's about control and political power.

It's insidious. And Pelosi is still leaving out 12 MILLION people. So it will be even more than $3 million per person. I wonder which 12 Million she's gonna leave out? How can our benevolent government do that?:cool:

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Specializes in LTC.
Can you site the part of the Constitution that proposes universal health care.

No, but neither can I cite the right of a woman to get an abortion. It's legal though. Universal health care is not contrary to the Constitution, that's my point.

Considering opposers of health care reform are the ones that are constantly using the Constitution as a way to express their opposition, I'd like it pointed out to me where it (Universal Health Care) is unconstitutional.

Pelosi is still gonna leave out 12 Million people. How will that work. Who will be DENIED universal health care?

It appears there is no mandate in the Pelosi bill and estimates sit at about 4% of folks who won't be covered. It will be interesting to find out if Reid's bill has a mandate for coverage.

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No it's not. I'd like for you to specifically cite the part of the Constitution that opposes universal health care.

That's easy. The 10th Amendment. "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." In other words, if the Constitution doesn't say that Congress can, then it can't.

What has been misconstrued over time is Section 8, which says, "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts, and Excise to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States." The word Welfare in this case refers to the United States as a whole, not to the welfare of individuals as the word currently is used (i.e. food stamps, etc.).

The government collects taxes and in turn provide services by the consent of the people.

Don't worry about the top 1%. Where would they go? Why would they leave a nation that caters to their every whim and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future?

Yes, the government does, but I'll argue that most of those "services" are not enumerated and wouldn't pass a Constitutional challenge. Congress still does it, but that doesn't make it right. There's been a bill floating around Congress for years that simply says that any bill proposed must show that it is Constitutional. Congress hasn't and probably never will pass it because it limits their power. The top 1% could go anywhere, there isn't a nation in this country that wouldn't cater to them. You're right though, they stay because they are catered to, but they do have options, and I would be surprised if many aren't contemplating them.

There is an element of control in every large entity. Large corporations certainly excercize it as well as governments. You're right, we would be giving a bit more control to our government and in exchange they would help us become a country that offers everyone the right to health care.

Congress is still saying that any health care bill they come up with won't provide health care coverage to 100% of the people. If everyone can't have it, how is it a "right"? What makes it a "right" in the first place? Everyone now has access to medical care. Anyone can walk into an ER and get treatment when needed. The only "rights" we have are those listed in the Constitution, and health insurance isn't on the list, sorry.

What I'm afraid of is that the control we're handing over to Congress bit by bit every time someone has a cause or bright idea whittles away at our individual freedom. We're losing the idea of the individual, of personal freedoms and responsibilities. Remember when Health Care Savings Plans were big news. The concept was that you could put money in an account, tax free, and use it to cover health expenses. It was similar to the idea of being able to opt out of Social Security and put what would normally be paid to that ponzi scheme and put it into an IRA. Those plans wouldn't work for everyone, but they would put responsibility (and control) into the hands of the individual and not the government. Apparently we can't have that.

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No, but neither can I cite the right of a woman to get an abortion. It's legal though. Universal health care is not contrary to the Constitution, that's my point.

Yes abortion is legal. What makes it legal is the fact that the U.S. Supreme Court determined that the Federal Government does not have the authority to tell you that you can't. That's the difference.

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