Health Care is a right

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I would do a poll on this, but I do not know how to - or maybe you need to be a premium member.

At any rate, I would like to hear some discussion on whether you feel health care is a right or not.

I personally do.

No, but neither can I cite the right of a woman to get an abortion. It's legal though. Universal health care is not contrary to the Constitution, that's my point.

Considering opposers of health care reform are the ones that are constantly using the Constitution as a way to express their opposition, I'd like it pointed out to me where it (Universal Health Care) is unconstitutional.

It appears there is no mandate in the Pelosi bill and estimates sit at about 4% of folks who won't be covered. It will be interesting to find out if Reid's bill has a mandate for coverage.

And it took a whole lot less time to get abortion. Maybe because people wanted it. UHC may not be contrary to the Constitution but it's still not a listed right. Lack of abortions could and did jepordize a women's life. Remember the right to LIFE.

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Specializes in LTC.
That's easy. The 10th Amendment. "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." In other words, if the Constitution doesn't say that Congress can, then it can't.

What has been misconstrued over time is Section 8, which says, "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts, and Excise to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States." The word Welfare in this case refers to the United States as a whole, not to the welfare of individuals as the word currently is used (i.e. food stamps, etc.).

When the Congress ratified the fourteeth amendment in 1866, it blew a hole in the state's rights argument. It did away with the 3/5 rule (counting slaves as 3/5 a person) but it also contained three new limits on state power.

1) States cannot violate a citizens privileges or immunities.

2) States cannot deprive a person of life, liberty or property without due process of law.

3) And states must guarantee all persons equal protection of the laws.

Before this amendment, the Bill of Rights limited only the actions of the federal government. After, the Supreme Court in what is called, "the doctrine of incorporation" has since interpreted the Bill of rights against state and loval governments as well. The fourteenth amendment is used in modern court cases more frequently than any other constitutional provision.

I'm not saying the 10th amendment doesn't have relevance. But, it's pretty hard to deny that the fourteenth weakened it substantially.

Congress amends the Constitution, the people and the courts interpret it, and the interpretations are vast. Legally speaking (the courts interpretation of the Constitution) Universal Health care passes the test.

Yes, the government does, but I'll argue that most of those "services" are not enumerated and wouldn't pass a Constitutional challenge. Congress still does it, but that doesn't make it right. There's been a bill floating around Congress for years that simply says that any bill proposed must show that it is Constitutional. Congress hasn't and probably never will pass it because it limits their power. The top 1% could go anywhere, there isn't a nation in this country that wouldn't cater to them. You're right though, they stay because they are catered to, but they do have options, and I would be surprised if many aren't contemplating them.

I highly doubt that we are going to lose the top 1%. But if they leave, so be it. Perhaps then we could change our economy into a more democratic enterprise.

Congress is still saying that any health care bill they come up with won't provide health care coverage to 100% of the people. If everyone can't have it, how is it a "right"? What makes it a "right" in the first place? Everyone now has access to medical care. Anyone can walk into an ER and get treatment when needed. The only "rights" we have are those listed in the Constitution, and health insurance isn't on the list, sorry.

False. Health care is a commodity in this country. If you don't have the money to pay for services it could affect your treatment options. It is a privilege that the rich can fully take advantage of, the rest of us are left with half-measures.

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Specializes in LTC.
Yes abortion is legal. What makes it legal is the fact that the U.S. Supreme Court determined that the Federal Government does not have the authority to tell you that you can't. That's the difference.

Here is the opinion of the Roe Court, written by Justice Harry Blackmun (who btw, declined to adopt the district courts ninth amendment rationale),

right of privacy, whether it be founded in the Fourteenth Amendment's concept of personal liberty and restrictions upon state action, as we feel it is, or, as the District Court determined, in the Ninth Amendment's reservation of rights to the people, is broad enough to encompass a woman's decision whether or not to terminate her pregnancy."

That pesky fourteenth amendment again. ;)

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Specializes in LTC.

Health care is a right because it is a moral obligation. It is a right all over the world. There many places where that right only exists in theory and has yet to come to fruition, but it is a right nonetheless.

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Congress has the right to regulate health insurance through the commerce clause.....

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It's a moral obligation? that is your opinion. Is banning abortion and denying gay marriage not a moral obligation? I love the left bringing up morality when they have zero credibility on the subject.

Health care is a right because it is a moral obligation. It is a right all over the world. There many places where that right only exists in theory and has yet to come to fruition, but it is a right nonetheless.
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They already do. Which is why we so many problems with health care in this country.

Congress has the right to regulate health insurance through the commerce clause.....
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Specializes in LTC.
Congress has the right to regulate health insurance through the commerce clause.....

:yeah::lol2:

Next time I will go straight to that instead of wasting so much energy. But heck, sometimes it's fun.

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Health care is a right because it is a moral obligation. It is a right all over the world. There many places where that right only exists in theory and has yet to come to fruition, but it is a right nonetheless.

A moral obligation for whom????????

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When the Congress ratified the fourteeth amendment in 1866, it blew a hole in the state's rights argument. It did away with the 3/5 rule (counting slaves as 3/5 a person) but it also contained three new limits on state power.

1) States cannot violate a citizens privileges or immunities.

2) States cannot deprive a person of life, liberty or property without due process of law.

3) And states must guarantee all persons equal protection of the laws.

Before this amendment, the Bill of Rights limited only the actions of the federal government. After, the Supreme Court in what is called, "the doctrine of incorporation" has since interpreted the Bill of rights against state and loval governments as well. The fourteenth amendment is used in modern court cases more frequently than any other constitutional provision.

I'm not saying the 10th amendment doesn't have relevance. But, it's pretty hard to deny that the fourteenth weakened it substantially.

Congress amends the Constitution, the people and the courts interpret it, and the interpretations are vast. Legally speaking (the courts interpretation of the Constitution) Universal Health care passes the test.

I fail to see what the 14th amendment has to do with the question. The 14th amendment reaffirms the individual's rights as guaranteed in the Constitution. It clarifies that a person is both a citizen of the United States as well as a citizen of state in which they reside. So your point is...?

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Health care is a right because it is a moral obligation. It is a right all over the world. There many places where that right only exists in theory and has yet to come to fruition, but it is a right nonetheless.

Moral obligation and legal authority are not the same thing. I feel a moral obligation to help the homeless, but that does not mean that I have to bring them home with me.

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Congress has the right to regulate health insurance through the commerce clause.....

Yes, on this I agree. But what is being proposed here goes far beyond regulating an industry, especially where the mandate that business and individuals purchase insurance or face penalties is concerned.

Congress could regulate the pre-existing condition issue and solve a nice size piece of the problem and not have it cost the taxpayers a dime. But that's not what they are doing.

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