Half of the class fails

NurseSpeedy, ADN, LPN, RN · May 24, 2015

From what I understand, half of the students that start a nursing program do not graduate. I went to a public school for my LPN. We had to attend a pre-enrollment information session before we could take the entry test and enroll. One of the things they stressed was that that about 50% of those that enroll do not graduate. The school did have a high pass rate for boards though. He also stress attendance and that buses do not come early enough for class so we would need reliable transportation and childcare for those who had children. He also stated what we could expect to make, that we may be working the graveyard shift, and that there was no nursing shortage (and this was when even the news media was screaming there was)...year later private accredited school that does online theory for LPN to RN transition students and on campus labs and clinical rotations had a required orientation after enrolling but prior to starting courses... "take a good look around because half of you will not be here in the end". This is quite typical of any nursing program. The stricter the requirements to get in the more likely those who do will pass the entire program. It takes a lot of hard work and determination. Those who are willing to put forth the extra time and effort will most likely make it. Those who think that nursing school is going to be similar to how college was when they were taking their general education classes are in for a rude awakening.

SarahMaria, MSN, RN · May 24, 2015

No, instructors don't teach. They put overheads of powerpoints on the screen and read them to you. It's ridiculous.

mu4ever · May 24, 2015

You are paying for your education. Take control of it! If an instructor is not teaching, it is your job to let the director of the program know! There is a chain of command to let them know about a problem like this. I had the same issue in my program. We had a student flat out drop because am instructor was not teaching. And a few more have failed out because of that instructor. Do not let instructors like this get away with it!

CVU_RN · May 26, 2015

I just graduated - we started out with 30 and only 10 of us made it through. It has to be something you really want and you must take it seriously or you will not make it! Don't give up though! Just be one of the ones who is determined to make it! :)

TeeKay12 · May 26, 2015

our class started with 150, then 50 on our fourth semester and now to the 5th and final only like 22 passed. But get this, all average tests scores were 71, what does that tell you?

The test scores of 71 tell me everyone in your class would have failed my school. A score of 77 or higher was required to remain. To my knowledge, everyone who started the program remained to graduate. It was tough, but with the exception of 1 student, we all passed the NCLEX on the first try, most with 75 questions.

NursingOn27, BSN, RN · May 26, 2015

my class started off with about 105 last semester and half of them dropped pharmacology.

nurseprnRN, BSN, RN · May 26, 2015

My school's weed out semester was 3rd. 3rd was considered the hardest semester at my school. We had cardiac, ortho/neuro and peds rotations that semester. It was also a "tradition" at my school too, our clinical instructors used to tell us to be careful because they were looking for people to weed out.

There's a difference between "weeding out" just for the sake of having fewer students and weeding out the people who are not going to make it past this semester, or will very likely fail in the 4th semester.

There's no point in prolonging anybody's agony. They know from experience that those who squeaked by 2nd semester will be very challenged by 3rd, and will be VERY challenged by 4th. They know from long experience that 3rd semester is the test of whether those squeakers will, in fact, be able to pass 4th. So yes, they are looking for them.

Third semester is when people really have to step up their game. Many can. Some can't, or won't.

aeris99 · May 26, 2015

No, instructors don't teach. They put overheads of powerpoints on the screen and read them to you. It's ridiculous.

Is that method of teaching great? No.

Is it your responsibility to learn anyway? Yes.

There are more than enough resources out there, for free, that can be used to gain understanding. It is unrealistic to expect that your instructors should spoon feed you content like they did through the pre-req's.

CVU_RN · May 27, 2015

The test scores of 71 tell me everyone in your class would have failed my school. A score of 77 or higher was required to remain. To my knowledge, everyone who started the program remained to graduate. It was tough, but with the exception of 1 student, we all passed the NCLEX on the first try, most with 75 questions.

At the school I just graduated from you had to make an 80% in order to make it. It started out at 78 my first semester and they decided it wasn't strict enough so they bumped it up 2 points. We also had to score a certain percentage on KAPLAN in order to make it and that was a 65%. Anyone who has taken KAPLAN knows how hard that score is to achieve.

NurseOnAMotorcycle, ASN, RN · May 27, 2015

I wonder if any student nurses read the nursing instructor board to see what their point of view is. Students seem to have a very entitled sense of themselves. When I was in school some of them thought that just because they were paying tuition that they should automatically pass everything even if they showed up to exams hung over.

cnmbfa · May 30, 2015

Faculty in schools of nursing face this problem: If a program is too strict on who progresses into nursing, it may be perceived as not giving certain groups a chance. We also know that if our NCLEX pass rates go below a certain point, the entire program may be put on suspension.

This is a huge dilemma. We WANT students from all backgrounds to make it as nurses, but for some this is a HUGE struggle because they had such a weak basic education. We also get transfer students who took prereqs at community colleges that gave them a good grade (so they wouldn't lose their financial aid status) even though they did not learn nearly enough to handle pharm and patho. That student now may have an inflated sense of their ability, and are angry at me for not lowering the pass threshhold.

I have had several students say to me "But I worked so hard." Yes, they did, but they did not master the course content or achieve the same standard as their peers. They also do not know enough to have good odds of passing NCLEX. I personally think it is unethical to pass them along (and keep taking their money) if their is little chance they will make it in the end. I also think it is unfair to water down the value of someone else's A by making it easier for others who did not put as much into the class to pass.

If you are one of the weaker students, start reading things that challenge you ahead of time (try the NY Times). Every time you run across a new word that you do not know, immediately look it up, then use it. Ask your HS teachers or someone outside your family to give you honest feedback on your writing skills, grammar, spelling, etc., then use the many free resources at your school and online to get better. Go Khan academy and take free 8th grade math tests. If you cannot easily pass it, use the many FREE resources on the web and your program's remediation program to get to at least that level.

Too many persons going into nursing (and the public in general) think that to be a nurse, you just need to be a nice person with a kind heart and some common sense. That could not be further from the truth. To care for today's really sick patients, you need a strong background in science, at least soild high school level math skills, the ability to explain your ideas in writing without numerous errors, an ability to read and understand college level material, understand basic statistics, and more. You also need strong critical thinking skills and the ability to go beyond memorization to use information and ideas to solve real problems. Nursing is application, application, application. It also requires knowing how to prioritize and to select the best approach among several options. It is not at all simple.

I'll be honest here: As one of the few remaining jobs with decent pay that cannot be sent to Mexico or China, everyone and their uncle wants to be nurse. That's why programs can accept hundreds into earlier level course. They know many won't make it, but the $$ support the rest of the program to do this. If you really want to be a nurse, stop spending time complaining about high fail rates. Instead, do whatever it takes to learn how to succeed.

I want to point out two key factors in overcoming disadvantages. Those who project the reasons for their bad results onto others (the faculty are too tough) are less likely to make it, so stop blaming others, right now. If instead you look inside yourself and say "What could I have done better to master this?" Or, "I wonder what so and so does to get good grades." are able to figure out how to get better. Likewise, people who believe that we each only have a fixed amount of smarts, or math ability, or writing skills, or whatever are far less likely to succeed. Just think about your cooking or athletic skills, or other abilities: how did you get better? With practice, by watching others who could do it well, with close attention to details, by asking questions, and by learning from your mistakes. Your ability to learn new things is inside you, but your self-talk matters, and can cancel it out by saying "The class wasn't fair. They're just out to fail us and take our money." while ignoring the fact that some people did pass. If you instead say to yourself, "I can and will get better at this. I just have to work harder than most people because English is not my first language, or my grade school teachers did make sure I understood this well, so I need to learn it now." you will find a way. It comes down to believing that you can get better, and then finding the tools and help to get there.

As a nursing professor, I care deeply about my students; this is widely known. I am accessible and a and approachable. Yet I still have students who don't come talk to me and don't show when I offer to meet with them to figure out how they can do better. Out of everyone I try to send to the math tutors, at most half go, even when they have scarily abysmal math assessment scores. If I do my part, why blame me for your poor outcomes? If I set up homework that if done, makes it very likely that if combined with at least mediocre test scores, you will still get a C, am I to blame if you don't do it?

Some students are totally unrealistic about how many hours they work. And while yes, I know a lot of people cannot avoid working, why not consider making it easier to work less by 1) not getting into debt (sell newer car, pay off loan, get an older car that will last 3 years); 2) cut expenses every way possible; 3) ask family to subsidize you in exchange for cleaning for them, mowing lawn, etc.

The key metric used to evaluate faculty are the surveys. If faculty do not meet a certain level, they will have to explain themselves, and if the trend does not reverse in 6-9 months, they will not be renewed. So not letting the program know about bad teaching is a bad idea. Yes, there are some lousy teachers out there; the good faculty need YOUR help in getting rid of them. (We risk being labeled uncollegial when we confront them directly, and have to have decent working relationships with them when we serve on committees, etc. Some will even get revenge for negative peer ratings by downrating you on your next review.) You have much more power to do something about them than I have! Deans may know something is wrong, but without evidence may hang on to them out of fear of a lawsuit and because finding a replacement may not be easy.

But please also recognize the effective faculty and give them credit. Please keep in mind that they do work they often are not paid for (writing recommendations to help you get a job, etc., putting comments in papers to help you down the line, improving and updating courses, etc.) And, they make at least $20,000 less per year than they would as advanced practice nurses. Many do it for the same reasons I do: to give back, and out of love for the students and nursing. Please be kind to good faculty.

kblas · May 31, 2015

About half the students not completing the nursing program seems pretty typical. But I believe your question refers to half the students failing one particular class and that is not so typical. If that happens I would say there's some pretty poor teaching in that class.

That's exactly my point! My point is that 30 out of 52 students failed (so as you can see more Than half) failed one class.