GN to NP in <1yr

[OhioCCRN]

I read a recent post regarding new graduates who cannot find work jumping on the NP bandwagon.

At work the other day, a new grad co-worker (less than 5 months experience) launched into a bitter tirade against a well known school for having the gall to expect her to have 2 years experience, have been involved in EBP, Committees and to have precepted before being allowed to even apply to join their ACNP program.....

Mind you, this nurse can barely handle her assignment... what makes her think that the NP is going to be an easy way out of floor nursing.... The courses take time and dedication and contrary to popular belief, graduation and subsequent employment are not a given..

[Dranger]

Are PA outcomes any better than NP outcomes?

I just go by my experiences working with both and by my colleagues who are finishing NP school and wish they had a residency because they don't feel prepared. Personally if I want to practice medicine I want to learn the medical model.

[Susie2310]

I just go by my experiences working with both and by my colleagues who are finishing NP school and wish they had a residency because they don't feel prepared. Personally if I want to practice medicine I want to learn the medical model.

If someone is holding themself out as a medical authority to me or my family I insist that they are trained as a medical doctor. Physician training involves first obtaining an undergraduate degree, usually in a science, then generally four years of medical school and 3-8 years residency. Nurse practitioner training at a master's degree level, according to one prominent university web site that I checked, has around 600 hours of clinical training. Obviously there is no comparison between the education and training a physician and a NP/PA receive. I have found this very large difference in education and training directly reflected on the quality of care I and my family have received, including outcomes, from a physician versus a mid-level provider. Whenever possible, which is almost all the time, my family and I only receive our medical care from physicians.

[Dranger]

If someone is holding themself out as a medical authority to me or my family I insist that they are trained as a medical doctor. Physician training involves first obtaining an undergraduate degree, usually in a science, then generally four years of medical school and 3-8 years residency. Nurse practitioner training at a master's degree level, according to one prominent university web site that I checked, has around 600 hours of clinical training. Obviously there is no comparison between the education and training a physician and a NP/PA receive. I have found this very large difference in education and training directly reflected on the quality of care I and my family have received, including outcomes, from a physician versus a mid-level provider. Whenever possible, which is almost all the time, my family and I only receive our medical care from physicians.

I don't mind being seen by an NP for clinic visits where I could probably prescribe my own meds but if it was a more serious issue or inpatient I would prefer a MD/DO. With the prominence of online or part time NP schools my confidence fades. Can I go to med school (or hell even PA school) online too? I have met great NPs, many with years upon years of experience that made them good. This whole new wave of new grads rushing to grad school is sad. A transition which includes no RN experience, perhaps an online NP school and 600-800 clinical hours later they are diagnosing you. At least PA schools range in the 2000-3000 clinical hours range and are basically an abridged version of med school with hard hitting science classes and less fluff. Even then they aren't totally independent, its still reassuring to see their curriculum.

I have nothing against NPs, my PCP is an NP but I will call a spade a spade when I see one.

[ThePrincessBride, MSN, RN, NP]

1. Many new grads are urged/pressured to go straight to NP school by their own nursing instructors. I've had teachers state that they expect more than 85 percent of us to have a MSN within the next ten years.

2. Finances and time. For me personally, it is important that I obtain a master's degree before I start having children (I want four). Once I start working fulltime and having babies, the chances of me going to grad school are nil. I also don't want to wait to obtain years of experience. I am not going to be super young when I finish my BSN (I will be 23, almost 24). And if I did go straight through, I will be 27ish with three to four years of fulltime nursing experience. A woman's fertility declines in her late twenties. If I were a man, I would have no problem waiting to have kids.

3. Burn outs and poor working conditions at the bedside.

4. Prestige

5. $$$$

[wanderlust99]

Well, obviously bedside nursing and experience are NOT important in the world of nursing anymore because anyone with a bachelors degree in anything can become a RN in 1 year, then a NP 2 years later with no bedside experience. Hell, I think some of the fast trackers have an easier time getting accepted into NP school than more experienced RNs. To each their own I guess.

[Fiona59]

1. Many new grads are urged/pressured to go straight to NP school by their own nursing instructors. I've had teachers state that they expect more than 85 percent of us to have a MSN within the next ten years.

2. Finances and time. For me personally, it is important that I obtain a master's degree before I start having children (I want four). Once I start working fulltime and having babies, the chances of me going to grad school are nil. I also don't want to wait to obtain years of experience. I am not going to be super young when I finish my BSN (I will be 23, almost 24). And if I did go straight through, I will be 27ish with three to four years of fulltime nursing experience. A woman's fertility declines in her late twenties. If I were a man, I would have no problem waiting to have kids.

3. Burn outs and poor working conditions at the bedside.

4. Prestige

5. $$$$

24 is young. You are just too young to know it. Your fertility doesn't dry up at your 29th birthday.

Consider overpopulation and the cost of raising four children.. Two cost a fortune. How do you plan on raising them if you are out of the home all day at work? Nannies don't teach your values.

The best NPs I've ever worked with were crusty old bats who worked hard to hone their knowledge, spent years up in the Arctic as the only healthcare providers. I'd trust them more than some new GPs.

[utadahikaru]

2 years experience seems a bit much to me, perhaps one year. Frankly, I think they should handle it the same as physicians fresh out off med school, meaning that they should have to work under another NP for at least a year, perhaps two.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

There was a time when I preferred NPs to MDs as my primary care provider. At that time, NP programs required five years of experience before entering the program, and the NPs that emerged were sharp, knowledgable and experienced critical thinkers. These days, I would stay far, far away. Too many nurses are going straight from BSN to MSN with barely any experience at all and when they merge as NPs, they just aren't all that. I've seen too many dumb rookie mistakes from even relatively experienced (more than 2 years) NPs who had no bedside experience. Like the NP who couldn't recognize A fib from a rhythm strip, so she had me run a 12 lead, and still couldn't figure out it was A fib until after she had the intensivist read the ECG. (At which she came to me and said "As Mr. Smith is now in A fib, we need to do X, Y and Z -- all of which I already had in motion because I'd known he was in A Fib for two hours -- without even acknowledging that I brought the A fib to her in the first place. But that last would have just been classiness, which I already knew she lacked.) Or the NP who consistently orders PTTs every morning "Because the patient is on Coumadin." I could go on and on but some of them make really funny stories and would be fodder for another thread.

Two years of experience before STARTING NP school should be an absolute minimum. And now I'm preparing myself to be flamed.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

Girl I feel sorry for you... everything about you says what a shallow person you are...

She's young -- there's hope that she may grow up.

[SNJS]

To each his own. And why would you feel sorry for her? OH right your just trying to be condescending....

Everyone has different career goals. And everyone takes different paths to reach their career goals. It's so strange to me how the culture of experienced nurses seems to be so judgmental towards new nurses when they have a different career path or career route than what they think is appropriate.

I personally went through a fast track BSN program (1.5 years) immediately after a B.S. in biology. These shorter programs do NOT cut out any clinical experience or curriculum. They just make the curriculum more rigorous. I took 20+ hours every semester. School or clinical 6 days a week. There were times when I would have three night shift clinicals in a row then have an exam the next morning. My plan originally was to get ICU experience then apply to NP school. Too bad I fell in love with ICU bedside nursing and have re-routed my plan to passing the CCRN first THEN going back to get my masters in nursing practice. HOWEVER, if I had decided to go with my original plan, I imagine that I would have been just as successful an NP as I am an RN...?

Lastly, there IS a demand for midlevel practitioners in healthcare today. Hey guess what? People and hospitals save ALOT of money by using NPs/PAs who can often provide the exact same service as an MD. And guess what? Even if the person has less experience or perhaps provides less quality services, well that's actually the point. That is why they are paid less than doctors.

[Aurora77]

Girl I feel sorry for you... everything about you says what a shallow person you are...

How is setting goals shallow? Or is it that someone wants to maximize her earning potential and gain prestige in her career? I realize this isn't my fight, but what a rude comment!

[fetch, BSN, RN]

1. Many new grads are urged/pressured to go straight to NP school by their own nursing instructors. I've had teachers state that they expect more than 85 percent of us to have a MSN within the next ten years.

2. Finances and time. For me personally, it is important that I obtain a master's degree before I start having children (I want four). Once I start working fulltime and having babies, the chances of me going to grad school are nil. I also don't want to wait to obtain years of experience. I am not going to be super young when I finish my BSN (I will be 23, almost 24). And if I did go straight through, I will be 27ish with three to four years of fulltime nursing experience. A woman's fertility declines in her late twenties. If I were a man, I would have no problem waiting to have kids.

3. Burn outs and poor working conditions at the bedside.

4. Prestige

5. $$$$

This whole post rings very true to me (as another new-ish, young nurse). Within a month of graduating with my ADN, my nursing school began emailing and calling me about doing a RN to BSN program. Many instructors talked about how they expected us to work up to a MSN (not necessarily as an NP, but some sort of MSN) within 10 years of graduating. I think it's partly related to the same sorts of discussions we see on here -- is ADN getting phased out? Do you really need to enter the job market with a BSN? Etc.

Also, we grew up hearing all the time that getting a college degree is the way to get a good paying job. So now the market is saturated with people with high education, and it's still hard to get a job. Logic says it's better to get whatever job you can and pay off your bills. But 20 years of training by society says getting a higher degree will get you a higher paying job. Sometimes it's also what parents/family members say!

As for #2, personal goals and plans are important. They might not be the same as mine, but that doesn't mean I should cast a value judgement. "An it harm none, do what you will."

Personally, I really do want to become an NP. But I also want to pay off some of my atrocious loans, and my current supervisor really took a gamble on hiring me, so I want to re-pay her trust with at least 5 years of employment if possible. At the same time, I fear that by the time I'm ready to become an NP, job prospects will look like RN prospects right now. IE, the only openings for new grads are middle of nowhere Alaska, and if you can't move, you're S-O-L.