Giving O2 without an order??

Nurses General Nursing

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Last night I had a patient sitting up in his bed at 0300 when I was checking up on everyone. At this time he is usually sleeping so I asked him if everything was okay and he said he couldn't breathe. I grabbed the pulse ox and it was at 75% he had no orders for oxygen but I went ahead and got him 2L of O2 NC. and raised the head of the bed. His oxygen went to 85% on 2L so I raised it to 3L and stayed by his side watching the pulse ox assessing his lung sounds, conciousness etc. It got to 95% and half an hour later I was able to move it to 2L and his oxygen stayed at 93% and he caught his breath and said he felt much better. I asked my supervisor and she told me to document everything and endorse to the AM nurse to call the Dr. in the morning.

I documented about 2L and moving to 3L all of the readings I got from the pulse ox and assessment of lungs and altertness/conciousness AND the fact that I am going to follow up with the dr. in the morning to get an order for PRN O2

My question is was it okay that I gave oxygen at 2L and then 3L when needed without a doctors orders? Is it okay that I documented that I gave oxygen and would follow up with the doctor to get an order? Because i made it clear I didn't have an order for this in my progress notes ... worried :| But I felt I did the right thing..

Most facilities have a standing order/policy in place to administer oxygen at 2LPM at the discretion of the assessing nurse. If your facility does not have such a policy, you should follow up to insure that something in writing is introduced.

Specializes in Cath Lab & Interventional Radiology.

I didn't read all of the replies, so please forgive me. All I have to say is that... the one thing that I really enjoyed about working in the nursing home short term rehab was the "anonymousness" of calling the doctor. I would say my name and identify myself as an RN, but working on PMs and NOCs I never really had to meet the doctors. For me this made me kind of fearless when deciding when to call the doctor. (It's not like when I go to Target and see them they will know who I am anyways). I would say it is better to call the doctor than not. This is for the safety of the patient, and to protect your license that you worked so hard for. Good Luck! I am a new nurse that is still learning as well. :)

Specializes in Med-Swing/Rehab.

my question is was it okay that i gave oxygen at 2l and then 3l when needed without a doctors orders?

-x-

when your patient is in respiratory distress it is fine as long as they do not have copd which in that case you would be decreasing their drive to breathe.

Specializes in LTC, Hospice, Case Management.

Just an FYI...In my state we are not allowed to have any type of standing orders in LTC. Heck we can't even have an order that states Tylenol 1 or 2 tabs every 4-6 hours. According to my state the nurses are not capable of deciding if 1 or 2 tabs should be given and if it is needed at 4 hours vs 6 hours.

when your patient is in respiratory distress it is fine as long as they do not have copd which in that case you would be decreasing their drive to breathe.

sorry, i just can't let this slide. just because the person has copd does not in any way, shape, or form, mean that they are a co2 retainer and that you should withhold oxygen if they are in respiratory distress! and even if they are a retainer, as i said in my earlier post, co2 narcosis takes time to develop. if the person is in respiratory distress, you give the o2 and worry about co2 narcosis later.

Specializes in ICU.

Giving it is fine, but I still think you should have called the MD to investigate the cause of the sudden low sat, and you would have had your order as well. A CXR may have been in order and or ABX if concern for PNA was there.

Specializes in ICU.
Sorry, I just can't let this slide. Just because the person has COPD does NOT in any way, shape, or form, mean that they are a CO2 retainer and that you should withhold oxygen if they are in respiratory distress! And even if they are a retainer, as I said in my earlier post, CO2 narcosis takes time to develop. If the person is in respiratory distress, you GIVE THE O2 and worry about CO2 narcosis later.

Exactly. As long as your not driving up their sats to 98-100 %, keep em at 88-92. They need oxygen, they need oxygen. I mean are you really going to let them sit at 75% because they are a COPD'er? Yeah didn't think so.

Specializes in New PACU RN.

Wow. Is this discussion only SCARY to me???!!!

In my area (I've worked at 3 hospitals), giving oxygen to pt is a nursing order up to 10L. Even if it isn't, I would never leave a pt is resp distress without providing what the OP has done. It's very easy for a person who is desatting/having difficulty breathing to go down rapidly - why take the precious minutes you have and waste on walking to the nursing station, looking for the doc's number, call him up, explain the situation, then get an order. That can happen AFTER!

Now, I'm not sure if the situation OP experienced is as dramatic as I'm describing, but still...

Specializes in Med/surg, Quality & Risk.
Thanks everyone for your replies:) yes I did give the duoneb first the patient told me it was helping a little but his o2 was still 78-79 so I got the oxygen. I'm a new nurse so I am learning. What is awful is that where I work everyone seems like they are afraid to call the md ... I was ready and willing but they advised me not to call this late. We have a dr that gives us times you can call him and if you call him outside of that time frame he yells at you. You all are right and this is my license if he wants to yell at me so be it .. On call dr is no joke. One of the nurses I work with had a really high blood sugar reading and it said call the md and I was like are you going to call ? And he said, "why make my night more difficult ... When the dr is just going to tell me to tweak the insulin?" it was 410 and the order said 400+ call md. This is something I want to bring up to my facility in the next meeting.

As another allnurses poster said, "If the doctors do not write prn standing orders for something this simple, I will assume that they are lonely and wish to be called often at home at 3am."

Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
I'll repeat what I have said before here at AN ...

If you are ever taking care of me, and find me in respiratory distress ... unless we all agree that it's my day to die please, PLEASE crank up that O2.

Me too. Having twice been hospitalized with asthma I can say that if you have me on 2L I might be tempted to crank it up myself when you leave.

Wow. Is this discussion only SCARY to me???!!!In my area (I've worked at 3 hospitals), giving oxygen to pt is a nursing order up to 10L. Even if it isn't, I would never leave a pt is resp distress without providing what the OP has done. It's very easy for a person who is desatting/having difficulty breathing to go down rapidly - why take the precious minutes you have and waste on walking to the nursing station, looking for the doc's number, call him up, explain the situation, then get an order. That can happen AFTER!Now, I'm not sure if the situation OP experienced is as dramatic as I'm describing, but still...
No one has said to call the doctor BEFORE helping the patient. People are saying she should have called once the patient was stable to inform the doctor of the situation,get an order for the oxygen already administered as well as any other orders the doctor might have wanted.

The dr came in that morning and he ordered a chest X-ray that was done that after noon he has lower lobe infiltration. And hasn't used the o2 since my sunday shift but now he does have orders for 2-3L OF O2 prn and use incentive spirometer. I actually called that doctor yesterday at midnight about a PTs blood sugar I was monitoring that went up to 515 8) she had a sliding scale that said >300=9u but no further order so i called to see what he wanted. looks like he's going to hate me but I'm going to call him regardless of what my coworkers say.. I'm going to use my own judgement.

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