getting fired and then collecting your retirement

[iluvivt]

A friend of mine at retirement age is worried she could be fired. She want to work two more years. This is in a California hospital in which she has worked for 34 years. Will she lose her employee match on the 403b,her PTO or can they refuse to pay her monthly retirement check. She has worked about 96- 110 hours per pay period in the last 5 years to get that retirement benefit up to the max. Personally,I think it is a witch hunt as the complaints they have about her are so vague....communication problems such as she is to blunt.....NEVER problems with patient care or clinical issues. Does anybody have any ideas on this or good site to check out....we would appreciate any help....TX

[BabyLady, BSN, RN]

If she has worked at a facility for 34 years and they try to fire her now, she will have an iron-clad case of age discrimination.

Tell her I wouldn't worry about it. Even in at-will states, the hospital is going to be very, very hard pressed to find a legal reason to get rid of an employee if they haven't found one in 34 years.

What they are trying to do is get her TO QUIT...she has too much on the line to quit now.

[Jules A, MSN]

If she has worked at a facility for 34 years and they try to fire her now, she will have an iron-clad case of age discrimination.

Tell her I wouldn't worry about it. Even in at-will states, the hospital is going to be very, very hard pressed to find a legal reason to get rid of an employee if they haven't found one in 34 years.

What they are trying to do is get her TO QUIT...she has too much on the line to quit now.

Of course they are trying to get her to quit but I would still worry about it. I have a friend, not in health care, that was fired after 25 years on the job with nothing. She was only in her 50s but even as an older person I wouldn't count on being successful in an age discrimination law suit. A bird in the hand is better than one up your bush or whatever it is they say.

[shodobe]

California is NOT a "right to work state" so she is safe in that respect. Being an RN she is most likely in a union. PTO is an earned bene, so they would have to pay it out, they couldn't keep it. Being at the top of the pay grade does make her a target for bean counters but hopefully she is in a strong union such as the CNA and not some wannabe union such as SEIU.

[SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN]

Taping anything in my state without the other party's knowledge is illegal. Seriously so.

[Atheos]

'At Will' and 'Right to work state' are to separate things.

As to the recording. Federal law is a one party consent system. Only one party has to consent to the recording. 38 states are also one party consent states. The rest are 2 party consent states.

I would check with a local lawyer because if your state requires 2 party consent you may get in trouble and your 'evidence' will be inadmissible in court.

California Penal Code 632

632. (a) Every person who, intentionally and without the consent ofall parties to a confidential communication, by means of anyelectronic amplifying or recording device, eavesdrops upon or records the confidential communication, whether the communication is carried on among the parties in the presence of one another or by means of a telegraph, telephone, or other device, except a radio, shall be punished by a fine not exceeding two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500), or imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding one year, or in the state prison, or by both that fine and imprisonment. If the person has previously been convicted of a violation of this section or Section 631, 632.5, 632.6, 632.7, or 636, the person shall be punished by a fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars ($10,000), by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding one year, or in the state prison, or by both that fine and imprisonment.

[HM2VikingRN, RN]

She should try to either bid to a different unit or attempt to negotiate a buyout of her position. (If she could roll all of her PTO into her 403 B with employer matches she would end up with a nice severance check.)

I went through a severe bullying/mobbing several years ago. (Its how I ended up a nurse.) Leaving on my terms ultimately was the greatest satisfaction.

[P_RN, ADN, RN]

It cost me right at 90,000 out of my settlement for workers comp. to get what they should have paid when I got hurt.

Then when I applied for my retirement that I had paid into for 30+ years I was told I had been fired. I was NOT.

Then it cost me another 15,000 to prove I wasn't fired but had run out of sick and vacation time. After I left I was told that the older nurses were being systematically weeded out. Now there is ONE person on that floor that was there when I was. Your friend needs expert advice.

[Sendieloo]

Then I would paint a target on my butt then. Having a witness or tape recorder takes away the "he said/they said" element of difficult employee/employer behind closed doors meetings. If I was concerned about my rights being violated I sure as heck would want something or someone who could back up my side of the conversation. If the employer doesn't have anything to hide then they shouldn't be intimidated by either suggestion. But, if it came down to it, I'd have a tape recorder AND a witness.....and also be looking for another job on the down low!

[Jules A, MSN]

Then I would paint a target on my butt then. Having a witness or tape recorder takes away the "he said/they said" element of difficult employee/employer behind closed doors meetings. If I was concerned about my rights being violated I sure as heck would want something or someone who could back up my side of the conversation. If the employer doesn't have anything to hide then they shouldn't be intimidated by either suggestion. But, if it came down to it, I'd have a tape recorder AND a witness.....and also be looking for another job on the down low!

But do you really think anyone, especially if they know they are being recorded, will say: "Gee Sendieloo you are too old and we are paying you too much so you are fired."?

[Sendieloo]

Do I think that they would say that up front? No....but management banks on employees being ignorant of their rights. If you go into a situation educated then they probably wouldn't be as likely to take advantage. But there is evil in this world.....even in the world of nursing!!! LOL!

[vamedic4, EMT-P]

California is NOT a "right to work state" so she is safe in that respect. Being an RN she is most likely in a union. PTO is an earned bene, so they would have to pay it out, they couldn't keep it. Being at the top of the pay grade does make her a target for bean counters but hopefully she is in a strong union such as the CNA and not some wannabe union such as SEIU.

The above is correct. The PTO you've already earned is your money, they cannot tamper with it or refuse to pay it to you. As long as you have hours in your PTO bank, you will be paid those hours. They will continue to pay into your retirement as long as you work for them.

[iluvivt, BSN, RN]

Thank you all for your responses. Could someone please explain the difference between a "at "versus a "right to work" state. I read all the responses and still do not quite understand the difference. We are working on a plan now for her. The whole thing disgusts me. This is a wonderful nurse. She comes in at the drop of a hat to help out. She takes a personal interest in her patients and has a real big heart. She has helped so many homeless people..buys them clothes and purses and slippers before their discharge. The nursing instructors always ask for her b/c she is so thorough with patient care. She does no sugar coat anything and sometimes someone will take offense to that. I never have b/c I too am that way. I do not want her career to end on such a bitter note b/c she does not deserve this....so we are preparing with information and a plan.