taking students, precepting

Thunderwolf, MSN, RN · Oct 29, 2005

i generally find that having a student adds one "patient" to my load, since i have to spend more time explaining or precepting them to practice skills. it would be nice if i was given a lighter patient load when i have a student, but that is not the case. in l&d, i tell the students to put on their running shoes and keep up! i do enjoy the fact that having to explain my thought processes to a student makes me "review" for myself why i do what i do, but some days it is mentally exhausting. the students who learn the most while with me are very proactive in their learning and express eagerness and willingness to seek out learning opportunities.

yes to above.

Squaw · Oct 29, 2005

WOW!! To my preceptors, THANK YOU for wanting to teach my what you have learned about this craft. Thank you for showing the short cuts and for being there to answer my questions. I can't imagine how a nurse being someone who generally cares for people do not care for nursing students. They are the ones that will be taking care of you when you are in there. Why not teach them everything you know. Are you burnt out on Nursing? If so, get out of the business.

perfectbluebuildings, BSN, RN · Oct 29, 2005

I can't imagine how a nurse being someone who generally cares for people do not care for nursing students. They are the ones that will be taking care of you when you are in there. Why not teach them everything you know. Are you burnt out on Nursing? If so, get out of the business.

I do not see the OP as being someone burnt out on Nursing, at all. Rather someone who has had some bad experiences with students and is burnt out on teaching/precepting, at least for now. Nurses do not necessarily come into nursing because they love to teach, and even if they do, there are good and bad days and on bad days it is really hard to want to teach. As a new nurse I understand that my questions, after a point, can get really hard to answer pleasantly/with a smile. Especially when they are things that seem so obvious or simple to the more experienced nurse. And I can see some parallels maybe, with that happening with nurses and students.

Also if there are students who are not willing to do what they are asked etc., as described by the OP, that is creating more work for the nurse and does not inspire confidence in that person as a future nurse- seems like they don't really care about their patients. I think a lot of nurses really really like to have students who are willing to try things, give it their best, put patients first and WORK HARD- they see that these people really care about their patients and want to be good nurses, even if they do make mistakes or ask a million questions it makes a difference that they are trying. That is what I have been told. But it is frustrating to try to teach someone who just doesn't care or even want to try- I say that not out of nursing experience but other experience, since I don't have a lot of nursing experience yet. I realize that the majority of students are not like that. I know most everyone who graduated with me was not like that at all... our instructors would never have stood for it. But realize that it does happen.

S.N. Visit, BSN, RN · Oct 29, 2005

Mostly the students here are so eager they are begging nurses for stuff to do.

This reminds me of my Thursday clinical. The nurses told us there were two caths & two enema's that we could do. We were all so excited, our instuctor put our names in a hat and pulled out 4 of our names. (2 to assist & 2 to perform the procedure) You'd have thought we were going to the olympics I didn't get a turn, but I was equally excited to have the chance to stop an I.V , do an acu check and watch a surgery.

badkids · Oct 29, 2005

I do not precept and I do not take students. At one time I thought I would never say this. However, students deserve better. I want you to learn and do well and have good experiences.
Taking students is very taxing and time consuming and frankly at times frustrating, when we are not on the same sheet of music.
It takes a lot of energy and patience and teaching to take on a student. I don't have it. And when I have a day when the demands are already high I do not need to spend extra time and energy with a student.
I will accept a student occasionally but not as a matter of routine. Ask me first. Perferably ask me after I know what I am up against for the day. If I have a patient go real sour very fast I need people I can rely on around me not a student.
I will galdly allow you to do proceedures on my patients when you are with another nurse. However, if I say this patient needs cathed and you waite several hours until you get around to it don't bother. I saw this done when anouther nurse offered to let a student do a cath. The student was with a diffrent nurse and both accepted the offer. Yet more than 2 hours passed and they made no move toward doing it. The patient was suffering. The student with her nurse was not that busy. The nurse who had the patient continued to waite after reminding the student because another hour passed. Finally she did it herself. I am not here to waite until it suits the student to do a procedure. If you want the experience take it now or not at all. Life moves fast in a hospital. Be pro active.
Be willing to jump on an oportunity when it presents itself. Waiting does not cut it. True you may not be able to jump on every oportunity if you can't because you are taking advantage of another opertunity say so. Say when you will be free and keep that commitment or at least tell the nurse you will not be able to keep it.
I found myself a few weeks ago trying to explain something to a student and I realized that because it is so ingrained in me by now I do it automatically and could not explain it. For many of us it gets to be that way. I do not want to go back to where I have to think about every detail so I can explain to a student. I want to just do it and be done with it.
Because you deserve better than what I am willing to offer I will not accept you on. If you are a pia (pain in the tush) for what ever reason I don't want to react to that in an unkind or unfriendly way. You deserve better. I deserve to choose to just do my job without the added stress and challenge of teaching, and being a textbook example because that is what you need right now.
I did have a student last week for one day. He was within 2 months of graduating. I tried to get him to do the meds. He told me he, "has the procedure down and does not need to do it." He watched me. HELLO. I am not the student. I really do have it down. Either you are here to practice your clinical skills or you are not. I did not respond it was his loss. He watched me do assessments. I had to push him to do assessments and they were incomplete. Why was he even there. What a waste of both my time and his.
I guess he had that down too. So why tell me why did he even show up if he had everything so down pat that he did not need to do anything. He lef tsaying he would ask to work with me again. I think not. I know this is not every student. But no matter how good you are you take energy that I am not willing to give as mine has become limited as I age.
You may find that unfriendly but I can assure you you will see more unfriendly if I take you on. You need and deserve much more than I have to give.

Hi Agnus,

I am just curious to know, when you were fresh out of school, did anyone precept you? And if someone did... imagine if they had your same attitude.

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Oct 29, 2005

I can't imagine how a nurse being someone who generally cares for people do not care for nursing students. They are the ones that will be taking care of you when you are in there. Why not teach them everything you know. Are you burnt out on Nursing? If so, get out of the business.

Now, that is a very disrespectful.

An experienced nurse explains politely why s/he prefers not to have students...and for his/her polite post, we have others piling on with inappropriate, judgemental comments. Not to mention, telling them to "get out of the business".

If every nurse that prefers not to have students got out of the business, there would be no one left to actual care for the patients (the "boring" ones that do not require "interesting" procedures and garner little student interest in their bed bathes/toileting) while the "teaching" is going on.

The "burnt out" comment was uncalled for. Just because someone admits that s/he does not have the time or patience to precept, has absolutely nothing to do with their skills or Nursing ability.

FirstYear2005 · Oct 29, 2005

i'm a student and i had no idea that preceptors were not volunteers ! yikes. i do feel bad for yall who "have" to do it. and as a student i would prefer to have someone who "wants" to teach me , because if not, we're able to feel the negative 'vibes', kwim ?? at the same time, I know when i'm a nurse, I am not goign to want to take on a student -- i'm not the teaching type.

i'm surprised there isn't a slight raise in pay for preceptors. :cool: Those who want to teach us, THANK YOU, those who don't, I understand. :)

epiphany · Oct 29, 2005

I feel the trouble with preceptoring is that nurses don't get paid to do it, and have to squeeze teaching between their pt load. I was always so happy to get someone willing to teach me, and I tried to be helpful as much as possible by doing most of the "dirty work" so that the nurse would appreciate and trust me, and hopefully teach me some skills. My preceptor literally rolled her eyes at me when she met me for the first time. I find out later that she was persuaded to take me on. I felt as bad for her as I did for myself. After a few weeks, she actually liked having me around because I picked up the pieces and tried to be her handmaiden. I hoped to learn from her, but much of what I learnt was on my own, when she was so swarmed that she had no choice to give some responsibilities to me.

My current preceptor in my job is actually happy to teach me. They don't get swarmed with too many new nurses I suppose, and they were all happy to see a new face on the floor. I hope I won't be too much of a burden to her.

So, not all students are a pain, and hopefully you'll meet students who would inspire you to teach them. Meanwhile, I believe that the fault does not lie within the nursing community alone. I hate that hospitals don't take into consideration the amount of responsibilities that nurses already have without having to teach as well, and teaching becomes a chore rather than rewarding.

mitchsmom · Oct 29, 2005

... In L&D, I tell the students to put on their running shoes and keep up!... The students who learn the most while with me are very proactive in their learning and express eagerness and willingness to seek out learning opportunities.

As a student I am actually GLAD when a nurse tells me this, because I'd rather a nurse do her thing and let me watch, learn, & take direction. I just say "If there's anything you want me to do, just let me know, & if you have any procedures I'd love to do it." I hate it if I feel like I'm holding someone up - I'm a big girl, I know how to keep up & if I get stuck I'll speak up. I also try to anticipate the nurse's needs & do things, get things for her so maybe I'm at least shaving off a little time that way.

As for the bad students... there are good and bad everywhere. Tell the instructors. Those students actually tick the other students in our groups off because they give us all a bad name - we are usually just as annoyed as the nurse!!

Nicky032605 · Oct 29, 2005

I am a pre-nursing student, and am wondering how anyone with that attitude would even be able to GET INTO Nursing School!!! You would think during the interview process they would screen people a little better.

RNKitty · Oct 29, 2005

Hi Agnus,
I am just curious to know, when you were fresh out of school, did anyone precept you? And if someone did... imagine if they had your same attitude.

You have to realize that often we only see students for one day. There is not much time to develop a relationship with them, nor assess and build upon their skills. We trained as nurses, not nursing instructors. Also, when you are working under us, our license and the license of your instructor is covering everything you do. That means I have total responsibility for any mistakes you make when you are caring for my patient. For new employees at our hospital, only nurses who are trained as preceptors will orient newbies, and with that comes a small pay increase ($1/hr). However, we are given neither choice nor compensation when nursing students are following our patients. Don't be so judgemental about a nurse's attitude.

zambezi, BSN, RN · Oct 30, 2005

Angus- I think it is great that you know this about yourself. If you don't want to precept then you shouldn't have to- it is not fair to you or the student. I don't think it sounds like you are rude to students- as you mentioned, when they want to watch/assist a procedure you will assist them- you just don't want them to be with you all day.

To the students on the thread: I would give her a break until you are on your own. Some of you will be great preceptors and love it. Some of you will hate it. Precepting is not an easy job (despite having someone else do your job for you). It is hard watching someone learn and do your tasks for you- and it takes twice (or three times) as long! When you (as an RN) are already under pressure to get things done right and fast, it is hard to change your routine, explain everything one or more times, double check it, and go a whole lot slower in the process. What take me less than a minute can take more than 5, 10 or even 15 mintues- which can be frustrating when there are so many other things to do. For many, they don't feel that they can give good care and teach another person something at the same time. This isn't right or wrong, it just is. As a student you should want to be with someone who wants to teach and spend time with you- not someone who feels stressed out or is not in the mood. I love to precept (most of the time anyway). I enjoy teaching others. When I was a student, I wanted to be with someone who wanted to help me learn. But that doesn't mean that it is easy.

All I am saying is please don't jump on someone who shares an opinion when really, it is in your best intrest as a student. It does not make the nurse that does not want to work with you a bad nurse. She knows her "limits" so to speak and that is her right.