I do not precept and I do not take students. At one time I thought I would never say this. However, students deserve better. I want you to learn and do well and have good experiences.
Taking students is very taxing and time consuming and frankly at times frustrating, when we are not on the same sheet of music.
It takes a lot of energy and patience and teaching to take on a student. I don't have it. And when I have a day when the demands are already high I do not need to spend extra time and energy with a student.
I will accept a student occasionally but not as a matter of routine. Ask me first. Perferably ask me after I know what I am up against for the day. If I have a patient go real sour very fast I need people I can rely on around me not a student.
I will galdly allow you to do proceedures on my patients when you are with another nurse. However, if I say this patient needs cathed and you waite several hours until you get around to it don't bother. I saw this done when anouther nurse offered to let a student do a cath. The student was with a diffrent nurse and both accepted the offer. Yet more than 2 hours passed and they made no move toward doing it. The patient was suffering. The student with her nurse was not that busy. The nurse who had the patient continued to waite after reminding the student because another hour passed. Finally she did it herself. I am not here to waite until it suits the student to do a procedure. If you want the experience take it now or not at all. Life moves fast in a hospital. Be pro active.
Be willing to jump on an oportunity when it presents itself. Waiting does not cut it. True you may not be able to jump on every oportunity if you can't because you are taking advantage of another opertunity say so. Say when you will be free and keep that commitment or at least tell the nurse you will not be able to keep it.
I found myself a few weeks ago trying to explain something to a student and I realized that because it is so ingrained in me by now I do it automatically and could not explain it. For many of us it gets to be that way. I do not want to go back to where I have to think about every detail so I can explain to a student. I want to just do it and be done with it.
Because you deserve better than what I am willing to offer I will not accept you on. If you are a pia (pain in the tush) for what ever reason I don't want to react to that in an unkind or unfriendly way. You deserve better. I deserve to choose to just do my job without the added stress and challenge of teaching, and being a textbook example because that is what you need right now.
I did have a student last week for one day. He was within 2 months of graduating. I tried to get him to do the meds. He told me he, "has the procedure down and does not need to do it." He watched me. HELLO. I am not the student. I really do have it down. Either you are here to practice your clinical skills or you are not. I did not respond it was his loss. He watched me do assessments. I had to push him to do assessments and they were incomplete. Why was he even there. What a waste of both my time and his.
I guess he had that down too. So why tell me why did he even show up if he had everything so down pat that he did not need to do anything. He lef tsaying he would ask to work with me again. I think not. I know this is not every student. But no matter how good you are you take energy that I am not willing to give as mine has become limited as I age.
You may find that unfriendly but I can assure you you will see more unfriendly if I take you on. You need and deserve much more than I have to give.
*edited to add: I agree with the poster who states that a clinical group is also just as frustrated with the "bad" student as the nurses are...
Yes, I am a STUDENT, yet I am graduating in 5 weeks. Luckily I have enjoyed all of my preceptors, maybe perhaps because I jump at the opportunity to do a skill or help in any way - hey, that's my nature. Not once have I had a conflict with any of my preceptors. I'm even doing my transitioning time with a preceptor I had for one day of clinicals in 2nd semester. So, see if you are nice and don't trash the students, you never know when they will find you at a later time to hopefully prevent you from getting one of those "lazy" students - yes, I've seen those too. However, this is what kills me - have those that are nurses now never had a preceptor? Were you never a nursing student? Did you never get talked down to like you were an idiot in front of others students and in front of hospital staff? This is what I see every single day as a student. Perhaps when you were in school, you learned everything you needed to know from a textbook - if you still have it, can you forward me a copy? I'd sure be happy to learn it all from a book and never have to bother one of you who doesn't like students again. But, maybe you should ask yourselves one question. I'm not directing this towards those who say they are aging and it's difficult to spread your knowledge, I'm directing it towards those who are saying that students just get in the way and are a waste of your time, since you're not getting paid extra for it or receiving any gratification. The question is, who do you think is going to be out their caring for you or your family members one day in the hospital? Do you think it may be one of these students who were not given the chance to develop their skills and grow into the profession because you just didn't like to have a students tailing you around for a few days?
Angus I apperciate your honesty and candor. I am starting my clinicals in Jan and I currently work in a hospital. I see students that come in and are eager to learn and some who are scared and need a little confidence. I do feel that nurses should have a choice on whether or not they want to precept. In all reality they do not always get that choice. One thing that I have learned is that nurses wear a lot of hats and shoes for that matter. Angus, I understand that you feel that you cannot physically handle the demands of precepting a student and that is fine, but you have so much else to offer. By being a more experienced nurse students will want to suck up all of your knowledge. You are a veteran and students can learn so much. Even if you don not actually precept you can still offer knowledge and advice when possible.
I hear so much about nurses not being teachers, but we are. We may not like it but we are teachers. We teach are patients and families about their disease or medications. We may teach our co-workers and sometimes we may even teach the doctors some new things. Nursing is about gaining knowledge and passing it on to help others.
I have seen nurses that have been downright rude and ungodly to students but I have also seen others that are wonderful. The nurses that are coming in are the ones that are going to help alleviate the shortage and are the future of nursing. Yes, students may be a pain and we may ask tons of questions, but we do it because we do not want to let nursing down. I personally want to be the best nurse that I can be so I can contiune to do the profession justice like the nurses before me have.
I am not a nurse and have never had to precept a student, but I have had to precept fellow co-workers in my position. Yes it can be stressful and it may slow down my day or I may have to alter my routine. I always try to remember that I was in their shoes at one time and remember how I felt.
This is no way an attck on anyone on the thread. Angus you have a right to your opinion and no one should attack you for it. I want nurses to know that not all students will be difficult some might be able to actually help you with your work and not hinder you. Just like it was posted to the poster that they should not assume Angus was "burnt out" nurses should not generalize students either. As students we try our best and want to learn and ase also a little nervous. From the begginning of time nurses have taught and trained other nurses and that is how it will be to the end of time. All nurses should be told that they may be part of their job description so that it would not be a big supprise. If there were no preceptors then where would nursing be because there would be no nursing students!
I know it is very hard as a student............especially as a beginning nursing student.........to get into clinicals and see the attitudes of most nurses. To see how overworked they are and how disgruntled they are. On one hand I understand it, but it does not keep me from saying, "wow, do I really want to do this?" This is something that a friend and I have been struggling with. She has since dropped out of nursing school. She saw how it "really was" and decided that she didn't want to have to put up with all that crap everyday. By "crap" I mean the attitude of the nasty nurses for two more years but also the attitudes of the nasty docs that treat the nurses like crap, attitudes from nasty pt's, etc. Getting into clinicals was an eye opener for her as it was for me. I think if you have any doubt whatsoever it is almost impossible to stay in school after you see the reality of clinicals. I think even if you are absolutely sure nursing is for you you still probably go home and cry!!!:rotfl:
Nursing school reminds me alot of a freshman "hazing" I had at a private high school. I feel like I have been teleported back in time to freshman year!
Yes, I also have mixed feelings on this topic.:chuckle
Perhaps, I did not tell you that I used to precept. I took students eagerly and loved it. I still enjoy seeing students learn and often informally teach these students that I no longer precept. I love to hear what they are learing thier plans and dreams.
I really have not had bad experiences so to speak that have turned me off. The vast majority (actually I believe all) were there to learn.
Would you beat up or pass judgement on a beloved professor who decided to cut back and only teach occasionally because they had developed physical limitations? I am guessing, no.
As far as "blaming" students for the added stress. I don't believe I am blaming anyone. Stress is. I simply stated the fact that students do add to that and I challege you to demonstrate that a student adds no stress what so ever. Part of the stress is that I care very much about what they learn and how they learn. This is not blaming it is a simple statement of fact as I see it. There are numerous stressors thoughout the day and this is one more period. I do not need one more.
Even the student who just watches and needs to be prompted at every step is a gem. We call this student as being in observation mode. He is attentive but tenative in taking action himself. He is just so awed and unsure about his abilities and well it is pretty darn scarry for the new student to get in there and do things himself.
Students hit this point not just at the beginning but at various points though out thier education process and then it hit again after they graduate. This is normal. Some are just afraid to ask questions or even more important do not know WHAT to ask. These are normal human reactions.
Let me tell you a story. I loved where I worked and loved my employer. I eageryl stayed late when asked or took an extra shift when asked because I knew it was apreciated and I was respected.
Then something started happening. I did not recognize it at first. EVERY single time I worked a few hours extra or an extra day I ended up calling in sick after I did this. After a while I saw the pattern.
I went to my employer an told them the pattern that I saw. I said that I would not work extra anymore because if I was calling in sick after doing this then I was not doing my employer nor myself any favor, infact I was doing us both a diservice.
That employer and every one since has agreed and been very respectful of this.
It was hard for me. There are still times I would like to help out.
I also hate it when I see nurse much older with the physical endurance that I once had. I used to be very high energy.
I used some examples of student behavior as a means of demonstrating some of the minor stress that was added by taking a student. The student who did not want to do meds did some other really wonderful things for my patient that really needed it. He was not a bad student. I did not have the energy to address what he chose not to do. I believe that (especially since he was graduating in 6 weeks) that he had a responsibility for his own education. He knew enough to accept or decline a task. However, I feel he did not take the free oportunity to practice and that is a loss. I can not save the world. I don't know if he would have understood if I explained it the significance of the oportunity that he had that day and passed up. And I did not have the time or energy that day to do it.
For the record that student was given to me with out my being asked. I really was not up to taking him but he apeared at my side when I was getting report and that was that. Later his part time clinical instructor who also happened to be a staff nurse on our unit came to me and apologized that she had not asked first and thanked me. (NO I had not complained or indicated in any way that this was a problem) She was just courtious I am sure, as people generally do ask first there.
As far as payment goes. If you choose (yes it is voluntaiY) to precept for 12 weeks you get paid $1 extra. After the 12 weeks you get nothing extra. If another nurse takes the person that you are precepting for you one day that other nurse gets nothing.
Some hospitals pay a bit extra for precepting or taking students some do not.
Taking students where I am does not pay more.
The precepting pay is for new graduates that are going to work on the unit, or for senior year students who are employed (paid) on the unit for the purpose of gaining additional clinical experience with a preceptor. Some places call these apprentices.
The paient load for the preceptor sometimes is only slightly adjusted up or down due to the precenses of the apprentice. However, the apprentice and preceptor have a long term relationship and get to know each other very well.
The student coming to the floor for the occasional clinical rotation does not have this. I assess as best as possible where a student is at in the beginning and try to find out what he can and can not do and what he wants from this day's experience. Then we go from there. In other words the student directs his own learning to an extent;remember these are adult students. Then when I see oportunities especially unusual ones I will direct the student to them.
Some hospitals pay nothing to precept period. Some require you take students, new grads, new nurses to the unit etc.
It IS NOT part of my job description. It is my decision if it becomes a part of my job description where I work, and the nurse who has agreed to this can change her mind.
I hear a lot of shoulds. I HATE the word should. Should is a very judgemental word that comes from what we preceive others expect, whether we say you should, or I should. Should is a finger pointing word. When I point my finger at you and say "should" three more fingers are pointing back at me.
Should is what is not and never will be. It is a fantacy word.
Please join me in the real world with real people and acknowlege our individual and unique limitations. It is ok to hate our limitations. It is not ok to confuse that limitation with the person who has it.
To the angry students who have posted here. I have been where you are and I am here now. You have not been were I and other nurses are do not be so hasty to pass judgement.
If it scares you away from the profession to see nasty nurse then that is a good thing IMHO. Because if that turns you away you do not belong here. The sad truth is we do get pretty cranky. And you will have to deal with that your whole career. Though hopefully not all the time every second of every day.
I hate to see people scared away because we need nurses so badly. And at the same time I am glad that you learn early on what you may be up aganist and make a decision early to get out rather than be just a warm body in the profession. It is sad and disapointing for you who are scared away. But reality is this is not a NICE NICE profession. Some times people come into nursing with an idea that is unrealistic.
From the angry students that posted here, I hear tones and words written by you that suggest you are pretty contentious yourself. This does not help the profession. If you come in angry what is it going to add to the profession that is already over stressed and over stretched?
You were treated badly by a nurse so you now have your dukes up. Not a good start.
I was a student. I had classmates complaining on a daily basis about 'bad" nurses and recieving bad treatment. I had those same nurses sometimes work with me and I precieved the experience quite differently. Sometimes the same nurse on the same day as the other student who complained.
Late on I did have a nurse that it was very obvious even to me the nurse did not want a student. My instructor could see it and aproached me. I verified that the nurse was physically avoiding me. We agreed that I would stay out of her way as much as possible and not make this any worse. I went to my instuctor with my concerns rather than tax this nurse any more than necessary.
Some of it is our own attitude as a student. Recognizing a stressed nurse rather than a nurse who was "mean to me." As nurses we are grown ups. Please, recognize that everytime someone snaps or seems grouchy it is not about you. It is about that person's level of stress.
Some of us are actually human. Stressors are not limited to the obvious ones we see others having at work. Though we don't necessairly bring our home life to work with us the stress we are feeling in other aspects of our life does not magically disapear when we choose not to bring the problem associated with it into the work place.
I am under numerous stressors away from work as I am sure you are as studens, wives, moms, daughers (subsititues sons, husbands) breadwinners, living on own etc.
You do not know where another person is at EVER. Please, do not compare their stress to yours. Perhaps you are under more stress but are handling it better. Perhaps the other person has less stress but has cumulitive effects from past stressors. Perhaps you have better coping mechanisms.
However, if you are feeling angy and need to lash out pass judgement and or saying "should" then I would surmise that you aint doing so well you're self and maybe need to acknowledge that you and they both have limitations.
I think it is sad that you have had bad experiences with nursing students. However, I think it is great that you are able to recognize that a student would be better off having some one else as a preceptor. I have had teachers that I have though "They have no business being here!" Why do they assume that just because some one is a nurse they should have the duty to teach people what they do. Some people are good and teach/explaining things and others are not!
I understand where Angus is coming from. I think when you are young (early 20's) you want to devote as much time and energy as possible to your new career. Often that means that these new employees don't realize that they need to take care of themselves, too. I am student for the second time around, and this time I realize that I have limits and need to stick to them to survive long term in this new career. For example, yesterday in clinical a young student spent 8 hours straight on the floor and skipped lunch because she had so much to do. Admirable, yes, but she's headed for burn out if she keeps doing that in her job. I could have easily skipped lunch and kept working, as there's always a lot that needs doing. But as long as my patients are stable, I have reported to the nurse, and meds have been given, I see no reason to skip lunch, especially since I get really irritable and tend to be prone to mistakes if I'm too hungry. Some of the nurses who precept me do have the attitude that you should only think of your patients, and you don't matter. I disagree. If I am not taking care of myself, how can I adequately take care of others?
Just an added thought. I do not see student bashing going on here. I do see bashing by (a few) students toward nurses who, for what ever reason, choose not to take on students. Unfortunately some are not in a position to refuse students.
I also see a sense of entitlement on the part of those students. Are you aware that you are in our hospital as a guest? You are entitled to very little here. You do not pay tuition to the hospital. Your tuition and entitlement comes from your school and even that entitlement is limited. Your school is dependent on us to furnish you clincal experience. Not the other way around.
There are hospitals that do not take students. Yet are able to staff thier hospitals with well educated nurses. One does not poop in the living room of a place where they are a guest even if the host is not what the guest wants.
I laugh at myself now...but...I was a CNA and unit clerk for over 20 years. I hated when students came onto my unit. You know the ones...the ones who already knew everything but really knew nothing at all. Then I hated it when they would first graduate and come work the night shift and you had to actually train them to do things like put on a restraint etc. Now I am the student nurse. I feel bad for the staff on the floor and try my hardest to not add any more stress. I know the stress the presence of nursing students on an already busy floor that is short staffed is already running high. I have to admit though that in the program I am in...we have 7-8 students in clinicals each time and our instructor is right there on the same floor with us at all times. If we need any help or have any questions we are supposed to go to her first. Some of the nurses like us being there and some dont. I have to add one thing though..the only nurse I have ever had a "problem" with so to say was a new grad from my program. She only graduated in December and already has a problem with students being in her way so to say. I want to say thank you to all the floor nurses who have to put up with students. I know we are not easy...some of us are lazy...others are over eager...and some of us are just plain scared...but I do not think anyone should be put down or chastized for not wanting to precept. I would rather have a nurse be honest and tell up front that they do not want a student then to be pushed on one and have hard feelings and more stress added to the day. Nurses work very hard and their jobs are extremely stressful. In my book they are not appreciated nearly as much as they should be. We as students should be thankful for any experiences or lessons we can be taught from any nurse and not put one down because they do not want to "teach" us. We are like having another patient. We are not competent enough to be sent out on our own to do most tasks...after all...why should they put their license on the line for us...we do take longer to do tasks that probably only take them seconds to do....I do not want to be on a soapbox and I am sorry...I just want to say thank you again to all the nurses out there.
I think it's sad when we start to point out that students aren't entitled to be precepted. If you work in a teaching hospital, this is a part of your job plain and simple. I would hope people could do that with kindness and compassion if they are not able to simply refuse or else find a different work environment where this is not a part of the job.
All this talk about preceptors has me wondering.......
Is it appropriate to give something to a preceptor nurse? I don't want to try to "buy" anyone's niceness, but like I said, I do understand the position they are in. However, there is not much I, as a student, can do to change that. So...........wondering if you can get them something or send them a card? I suppose unless you did it with every single one it would not be appropriate? I just thought of this the other day when I had this one nurse who was really not happy to see me in the AM and was VERY dissapointed when I told her I was a Block 1 student (can't do much). Even still, she warmed up and ended up being very nice and a super teacher.:icon_hug: I wondered if I could do anything other than saying "thank you" to show my appreciation??
I just think that these nurses who are nice to you despite all their stress deserve something. I am usually 10x more scared of the nurse I am assigned to for the day than my patient!!!:rotfl: Funny, but true!
Any thoughts???:uhoh21:
Edited to add that I have asked my preceptor nurse if she would like anything from the cafeteria but I don't think that counts, LOL
I totally respect your point of view and candor on the subject. Too bad there aren't that many other nurses that will be that honest and decline. I think the ones that don't have the guts to decline are the ones that we hear about by the students as being the ones that "Eat their young".
I personally am looking forward to that aspect of nursing once I myself know what I am doing but I think that it takes all kinds to make the nursing world what it is!!
All this talk about preceptors has me wondering.......
Is it appropriate to give something to a preceptor nurse? I don't want to try to "buy" anyone's niceness, but like I said, I do understand the position they are in. However, there is not much I, as a student, can do to change that. So...........wondering if you can get them something or send them a card? I suppose unless you did it with every single one it would not be appropriate? I just thought of this the other day when I had this one nurse who was really not happy to see me in the AM and was VERY dissapointed when I told her I was a Block 1 student (can't do much). Even still, she warmed up and ended up being very nice and a super teacher.:icon_hug: I wondered if I could do anything other than saying "thank you" to show my appreciation??
I just think that these nurses who are nice to you despite all their stress deserve something. I am usually 10x more scared of the nurse I am assigned to for the day than my patient!!!:rotfl: Funny, but true!
Any thoughts???:uhoh21:
Edited to add that I have asked my preceptor nurse if she would like anything from the cafeteria but I don't think that counts, LOL
Here's what I did last spring for the nurse and the department that precepted me. I took my actual preceptor to dinner at a Mexican Food Restaurant that she liked that was close to the hospital (way after the "grading" part had been done by her) and then I baked several different kinds of muffins and got a card for the whole department to thank them for the experience as a whole. You might also send a nice letter to her/his nurse manager recognizing their kindness!!
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psych_nurse_2_be
9 Posts