taking students, precepting

[Agnus]

I do not precept and I do not take students. At one time I thought I would never say this. However, students deserve better. I want you to learn and do well and have good experiences.

Taking students is very taxing and time consuming and frankly at times frustrating, when we are not on the same sheet of music.

It takes a lot of energy and patience and teaching to take on a student. I don't have it. And when I have a day when the demands are already high I do not need to spend extra time and energy with a student.

I will accept a student occasionally but not as a matter of routine. Ask me first. Perferably ask me after I know what I am up against for the day. If I have a patient go real sour very fast I need people I can rely on around me not a student.

I will galdly allow you to do proceedures on my patients when you are with another nurse. However, if I say this patient needs cathed and you waite several hours until you get around to it don't bother. I saw this done when anouther nurse offered to let a student do a cath. The student was with a diffrent nurse and both accepted the offer. Yet more than 2 hours passed and they made no move toward doing it. The patient was suffering. The student with her nurse was not that busy. The nurse who had the patient continued to waite after reminding the student because another hour passed. Finally she did it herself. I am not here to waite until it suits the student to do a procedure. If you want the experience take it now or not at all. Life moves fast in a hospital. Be pro active.

Be willing to jump on an oportunity when it presents itself. Waiting does not cut it. True you may not be able to jump on every oportunity if you can't because you are taking advantage of another opertunity say so. Say when you will be free and keep that commitment or at least tell the nurse you will not be able to keep it.

I found myself a few weeks ago trying to explain something to a student and I realized that because it is so ingrained in me by now I do it automatically and could not explain it. For many of us it gets to be that way. I do not want to go back to where I have to think about every detail so I can explain to a student. I want to just do it and be done with it.

Because you deserve better than what I am willing to offer I will not accept you on. If you are a pia (pain in the tush) for what ever reason I don't want to react to that in an unkind or unfriendly way. You deserve better. I deserve to choose to just do my job without the added stress and challenge of teaching, and being a textbook example because that is what you need right now.

I did have a student last week for one day. He was within 2 months of graduating. I tried to get him to do the meds. He told me he, "has the procedure down and does not need to do it." He watched me. HELLO. I am not the student. I really do have it down. Either you are here to practice your clinical skills or you are not. I did not respond it was his loss. He watched me do assessments. I had to push him to do assessments and they were incomplete. Why was he even there. What a waste of both my time and his.

I guess he had that down too. So why tell me why did he even show up if he had everything so down pat that he did not need to do anything. He lef tsaying he would ask to work with me again. I think not. I know this is not every student. But no matter how good you are you take energy that I am not willing to give as mine has become limited as I age.

You may find that unfriendly but I can assure you you will see more unfriendly if I take you on. You need and deserve much more than I have to give.

[USIJurgy]

This is my first post, and I most say that I was really hurt by some of the comments here. Yes, I am a student. Yes, I am not as fast as some seasoned nurses- but if nurses do not precept me or take me on a clinical day, then I will never be able to earn my degree so that older nurses can retire. I love nursing and I love nursing school. I have worked with so many amazing nurses who are patient and while the nursing process is so engrained in them, they are able to explain it to me because of their higher critical thinking and technical skills. Thank God for nurses who realize that if a nurse doesn't step up and teach a student, there will be no more new nurses. I do not care how horrible your day is- you need to teach a student how to do the charting for this surgery or the procedure for this NG flush. It is EVERY nurses responsibility, not just the ones who are having "good days and not a terrible patient load."

"It seems like it is a lose-lose situation for both parties oftentimes.....a nurse who doesn't want a student and is cranky, and a student who is just learning and trying to do their best but is treated poorly anyway."

I do not think any learning opportunity is "lose-lose" oftentimes at all. I would say rarely never. Even if my nurse is being completely rude, I am still the patient's advocate. I will make sure my patient is comfortable and treated appropriately, even if I am catching flack from the nurse who I am working under.

[HappyNurse2005, RN]

I do not care how horrible your day is- you need to teach a student how to do the charting for this surgery or the procedure for this NG flush. It is EVERY nurses responsibility, not just the ones who are having "good days and not a terrible patient load."

NO I do not NEED to teach any student how to "do the charting for the surgery" or "this NG flush". That is your clinical instructor (who is a nurse, too, you know)'s responsiblity. Not mine.

If I have an interesting or not so commonly seen skill, I'm glad to ask the nursing students (even if they AREN'T with that patient) if they want to do it. For ex, I had a patient who had a wound vac, and I asked the nursing instructor if any of the students would like to change it, b/c I knew that is a not too common skill.

But do not be mistaken. I do not NEED to it. I do it because I enjoy teaching.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

I do not care how horrible your day is- you need to teach a student how to do the charting for this surgery or the procedure for this NG flush. It is EVERY nurses responsibility, not just the ones who are having "good days and not a terrible patient load."

I regret that you're hurt by what you've read on this thread.

However, you really should care how horrible my day is when your on my unit.

Students ask for, and have a sense of entitlement for, understanding and compassion. They need to give it to those of us in return as well.

I'll leave it at that.

[TraumaRN1983]

After reading many of these posts, it seems to me that most of the nurses who posted on here view nursing students as a burden and that being a preceptor for me is mentally exhausting. I am an RN nursing student in my last year, and it has been my experience that the vast majority of my preceptors (and preceptors of other students in my nursing class) view us as incredibly helpful and that we actually decrease their stress level. If you have a more complicated procedure to do with one of your patients and do not want to teach this to the students, that's fine, but what you should be doing is having the student helping you out in some other way, such as taking vitals or giving a tube feeding. I was on the medical floor for my clinical the other day and I was helping one nurse with all 4 of her patients. I did all the vitals for these patients, administered all the meds, gave a tube feeding, discontinued an IV, and helped clean one of the patient's up, and the nurse who was my preceptor was free to do other tasks, such as charting and other paperwork that I could not do for her. I am sure that being a preceptor is difficult and maybe a little stressful, but I think that if you take the attitude that all your students will be incompetent and will get in your way, you will create a self-fulfilling prophecy and the students will get in your way. However, if you take the attitude that a student can help make your day easier, and you give the student some tasks to help you out, being a preceptor will become a better experience. I have seen firsthand that there are some pretty horrible nursing students out there and they definetly can make your job more difficult, but I would say that the vast majority of us are there at clinical to learn from you as much as we can and to help you out with whatever you need. I understand that being a nurse is a high stress job, but having a negative attitude toward all nursing students is not the answer.

[ceecel.dee, MSN, RN]

I really enjoy taking students. That said, I would like a slightly lighter load so that I can give that newbie adequate attention and a few extra bucks for the extra energy expenditure.

And to the students...the vast majority of you are wonderful to have around, and so eager to learn and do, so don't take the criticism aimed at your inferior classmates personally. If the shoe dosen't fit, and all that....

[ngannon]

I just wanted to say...the student you chose not to teach today, could be the nurse who has no knowledge for the patient(you)tomorrow. The knowledge you have collected all along the way, could have been passed on, but you have chose to keep it to yourself. I know you feel you have justified your thinking by saying It's just better this way, but being a student I see more nurses treat me this way. For every nurse who is giving of their knowledge, there are many many more who are not. The question I have is.....What if the knowledge you chose not to share with me today could save your life tomorrow? Would you go back and teach me today, and live another day?

THANKS so much for the nurse who choses to teach me today!

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

After reading many of these posts, it seems to me that most of the nurses who posted on here view nursing students as a burden and that being a preceptor for me is mentally exhausting.............. I understand that being a nurse is a high stress job, but having a negative attitude toward all nursing students is not the answer.

I went back on this thread and reread the first three pages or so. I'll have to disagree. that most nurses on this thread posted negatively. I counted three people do didn't want to precept students. Two people who said the love students. Nine people who were neutral, acknowledging it's tough to precept students and carry a heavy load, but weren't against students.

Also nine posts were from students. I stopped after that because it was to the point we were talking back and forth. But more and more students chimed in after that.

Just because someone says it's tough to manage a heavy load and precept students doesn't mean we're anti-student. I personally feel an obligation to students and love teaching. But it's by no means easy. Most of the time, I'm left charting or finishing up long after the students leave, precisely because I took time with them.

[La Crosse Nurse]

I too have had my share of student and I have only "officially" been an RN since 2004. Having been a LPN and going back to school for my RN I can feel the pain of being a student. What I do not understand is...If a student has an instructor, which is paid a heck of a lot more than I do, WHY AM I TEACHING THEM????? Some, not all, of the instructors leave the floor and are not seen for hours. I have a patient(s) to take care of that day. If I don't get all of my work done, including that of a student, it is not only a reflection on me it is a reflection on the facility I am employed at. Sometimes for the sake of the student and their learning I keep quiet and let the student hear it from the patient. But, other times I already know the patient and know dare well it will be reflected on my care.

We never have a choice in whether we want to precept or not, it depends where the instructor assigns them.

I for one am getting prepared to tell one group of nursing instructors that they need to be more attentive to the "developing" nursing students. I am not getting paid to teach. I get paid to take care of the patients on the floor. I don't get paid to babysit on top of it all!!!!

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

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[cajunnga]

Agnus I do understand. I'm out of the business now, but I guess things change and so do we.Fortunately USC and the Tech instructors were usually johnny- on -the spot at folllow up. Usually they found the problem and came to the nurses rather than vice-versa. I wasn't really aware that staff anywhere else was expected to teach students.

I did and still do like precepting, but the clinical specialist usually did a skills check long before they hit the floor.

I am in my last semester. We went through skills labs and checked off on everything we needed to, however on somethings that nursing students fight over like foleys and IVs--everyone doesn't get to do a lot of those in school and when we get to our preceptor we are kind of praying for a kind person to (unless it is an emergency of course) enable us to develop skills and if we are not doing something right to tell us, show us, teach us. I have worked my butt off the entire time I have been in school and have a family, a full time job and even picked up a prn job as a tech in the ED to help develop my skills. If one doesn't want to precept they shouldn't and if it is obvious that the student doesn't want to learn then they shouldn't be there but for those of us who have sacrificed so much and work so hard: Give us a break. We need it.

[jgrossberg]

Howdy. I am a student, and I know that it is more work for the nurses to take me on. I hate the fact that my presence causes more stress, and I understand how you feel because it's a lot harder to teach people than people think it's going to be. The fact is that you all who take on students should get paid more for being a preceptor or should get a reduced patient load, or how about both! I know that it would be pretty impossible for the floor I'm on now to reduce a nurse's load because there are a ton of patients and a shortage of staff to begin with. Add students to the mix......Oy. I wonder how we could get you guys something in return for your time and patience......there are a lot of more important battles to fight in nursing, I know, but it would be a good thing if a student's presence could become a positive addition rather than the stress that it often is.

I just have to say THANK YOU for sharing your workday with me. It means so much to me when I have a good nurse I can learn a lot from who is willing to help me out in my learning. And I have been lucky to work with some pretty amazing nurses during my clinical time. This student won't forget it!

AMEN!!!!! And every one of my clinical rotation cohorts would say the same. You who have preceded us - virtually every nurse I have worked with - are often ALL WE HAVE to give us what we need to learn to be good nurses. Books and lectures CANNOT do that. THANKS. :yelclap:

[TraumaRN1983]

What I do not understand is...If a student has an instructor, which is paid a heck of a lot more than I do, WHY AM I TEACHING THEM????? Some, not all, of the instructors leave the floor and are not seen for hours. I have a patient(s) to take care of that day. If I don't get all of my work done, including that of a student, it is not only a reflection on me it is a reflection on the facility I am employed at. Sometimes for the sake of the student and their learning I keep quiet and let the student hear it from the patient. But, other times I already know the patient and know dare well it will be reflected on my care.

I for one am getting prepared to tell one group of nursing instructors that they need to be more attentive to the "developing" nursing students. I am not getting paid to teach. I get paid to take care of the patients on the floor. I don't get paid to babysit on top of it all!!!!

I don't know how other nursing schools work, but at my school we have a definite shortage of instructors and more students that want to be in the nursing program than there are spots for them. At the hospital I do my clinicals at, I have two instructors, and each of them has responsibility for a total of 12 students. They try their best to get to all the different areas that students are at, but it is very difficult for them to do so when there are so many students. Because of this, I and other students in my clinical group gain most of our knowledge from our preceptors, and much of that knowledge has been invaluable. I learn more from my preceptors than I do from my instructors most of the time, and it has been a wonderful experience for me. Before we started clinicals, we spent a lot of time in the nursing labs with our instructors and we did learn a lot of the basic skills. However, we learn most everything about patient care from our preceptors. I think my nursing instructors do a wonderful job of "developing" us into better nursing students, but it is our preceptors that help us become better nurses.