Nurses.... Our Own Worst Enemies??

Nurses General Nursing

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I keep reading all the messages posted by everyone in this forum and I have to just keep asking myself... how much of the nursing shortage problems are being caused by nurses themselves??

I feel that each individual is responsible for how they portray themselves and their professions. If we portray our profession in a negative light, then who wants to join??

If each individual is not part of the solution, then obviously they must be part of the problem, right?

Well, I am a Director of Nursing at a 125-bed facility in Maine. Yes, I am part of the "dreaded" management... a term that I am just fed up with. Nothing makes me angrier than when I hear the statement "management doesn't care" or "we get no support from management." Well, I have to tell you that we are all in the same big boat.

I spend a lot of my time recruiting new staff. Nothing is more frustrating than hiring a new staff member and then having my staff treat them like dirt when they go out onto the floor! Is this not counter-productive?? Many of the same staff that act in such a manner are the very same staff who come into my office to complain if they have to work short!!! UGH!!! This makes no sense to me!! Why is it that people have to behave this way? I have spent many hours with my staff in trying to get this point across... and I have to say that one by one, they are catching on. And.... believe it or not, I am beginning to see a difference. It just takes time and takes patience in hitting the idea home.

I also spend time talking with high school kids and promoting the profession. I am amazed at some of the ideas that kids have about the nursing profession... yet again, one by one, you have to start changing the image of the nursing profession. The press and other nurses have tainted people's view of the profession and it does take a lot of time and effort to change these images.

Patience is definitely a virtue when it comes to these issues. Those without lots of patience probably do not make the best managers.

I visit these forums regularly and read what other nurses are saying about the profession... wow, sometimes I am appalled by what I read. I am surprised that a nurse would come on here to tell the world how horrible her/his job is. This sure does not lend to the idea of attracting new people to the profession. It makes me very curious if these are some of the same nurses who frequent their DON's office to complain about working short. I love to bring those people's attention to this fact and do so often. I am a big believer in making people accountable for their actions and making them look at something just a bit more differently.

Promoting the nursing profession in a negative light certainly is not helping the cause.

Think about it the next time you make a complaint.

Thanks for listening (or reading!)

It is up to each individual to make the difference... remember, an avalanche starts with just one rolling stone....

Peace to all.... Tim Knight

Specializes in ORTHOPAEDICS-CERTIFIED SINCE 89.

Folks, this is not at all like you. Tim is a member here just like you and me. I've been management...but at heart I'm a nurse just like Tim.

Let's not strike out at someone for voicing their opinion, be it Tim, or me, or you or even "Jerry and Pat".....(I did see their retraction/apology).

We are ALL nurses. OK?

Wow... and thank you P_RN. Until I read your last message, I was honestly never coming back on this site again! I cannot believe some of the responses my post got.... I have been so upset all day that I was beginning to question my abilities!

But, then I have to remember that these replies are from faceless people that I have never met. I am a good manager. I know that and the people that I work with know that. That is all that matters, I guess.

I am somewhat relieved that some of the nurses who have posted on here today do not work for me, however... although, if they did, they would have a whole different outlook, I can assure you.

I have never felt so attacked over an opinion. There sure was a whole lot of things read into my posting. I am sorry for that.

I do care. I care about the residents of my facility and I care for the people who work for me at the facility. I do not rule with an iron hand. The nurses are my family and friends. I cherish them more than most of them even realize. None of you know that. None of you know the amount of time I spend every day listening to everyone else's problems and concerns. None of you know the number of nights I lay awake trying to solve all the problems of the day. None of you know me at all!! I owe none of you anything.

I do my job and I do my job well. I am proud of the job that I do. I am committed to doing my best.

I am actually sitting here thinking... what am I doing?? Why do I feel it necessary to even explain this to these people?? Well, it is because I do care... I do care what others think of me and how I do my job. I don't think that is a bad thing, do you?

I am sorry I upset a few people on here. I thought this would be a great place to make a statement, to express my feelings. But, now I know better. I will keep my "immature" statements to myself from now on.

This is the end of my story... I am sure there are many that are thankful for that, eh?

Love & peace to all... Tim

Specializes in NICU, Infection Control.

I honestly believe that I was trying to explain to Tim why a nurse might want to come here and blow off steam (and, I think if you work in the "helping" professions, steam does need to BE blown off periodically), get some advice w/ a situation to which they are too close to see objectively, get support when patients, co-workers, school, and life in general is too, way too much.

If that is not how you read my post, Tim, then I would really like to apologize, and ask you to read more of the BB, offer your opinion when you feel so inclined. I did NOT mean to offend you.

Specializes in ORTHOPAEDICS-CERTIFIED SINCE 89.

Hi Tim, I know that you realize that emotions here are very raw from the happenings of the past week. I'm glad you peeked back in.

What kind of facility do you work in? It sounded like maybe LTC or rehab?

Please feel free to contribute here. We are all pretty much normal folks. You indeed are welcome.

P

Tim: I am also management and believe me I have learned a lot reading the postings of these nurses that are working the floors. I bring some of their ideas back to my staff. I have encouraged my staff to get on line and see what these nurses have to say. My staff knows my posts are under Spudflake. Some have come and read but I haven't seen any posts SO FAR!!!:o This forum is a great opportunity for management. I for one LOVE IT> These guys and gals are GREAT. I love the B*****ing!

Tim - these people are tired and very under appreciated where they work by many people - even their patients, clients, customers....What did you expect??

Nurses are under paid and over worked. They keep at it BECAUSE they LOVE IT. That's the only reason. There are so many opportunities out there for people today that don't involve working nights, weekends and holidays. That don't involve life and death decisions and caring. That don't involve cleaning up the stuff that nurses clean up EVERYDAY.

I for one say - let loose people...this is your forum:D

I also say Thank you! You guys are VERY open with your opinions and feelings. What comes across is the same theme nation wide. We are nurses, we tend to the sick and very ill. we help save lives, we work hard and are PROUD of what we do.

Tim, I am sorry if you can not see this in these wonderful nurses. As management I laugh and cry reading some of these posts but I appreciate the fact that these nurses are secure enough to post whatever they may be feeling.

Welcome Tim. Read, hear what they are saying and LEARN, Learn, Learn.:D

I'd like to comment on Tim's post. I'm the person he's so

afraid will hear/read nurses talk about their jobs and

decide not to pursue a nursing career, so I feel qualified

to respond. I'm not a nurse (yet). I'm taking the

courses necessary to apply for nursing school, so I'm

not a student nurse (yet) either. I found this web board

six months ago and spent a lot of time reading current

and archived posts. The people on this board are a big

part of why I know my decision to go into nursing is the

right one.

Tim asks:

>>. . .If we portray our profession in a negative light,

>>then who wants to join??

I do. I cannot even begin to tell you how much I

appreciate the honest, raw truth about nursing from

the viewpoint of a nurse. I've read lots of descriptions

of nursing jobs that were obviously written by people

with marketing background. Not very useful. I'd rather

know the *truth* about what I'm getting myself into

before I get there, not afterwards. I'd rather be

proactive and prepare myself for what's out there instead

of being reactive and unhappy because it wasn't what

I expected.

>>Nothing makes me angrier than when I hear the

>>statement "management doesn't care" or "we get no

>>support from management."

If the nurses you're managing are saying this, then what

are you doing to fix it? Are you angry because nurses are speaking out and saying what they feel? Are you part of

the solution? Again, what are you doing to fix the problems?

If you're talking about the posts here, then what are you

complaining about, exactly? It sounds like you're upset

about the fact that nurses feel this way and are verbalizing

it. That's not something you can change so you might as

well use it to your advantage. Step back and take a good

hard look at what these nurses are saying. Find a way to

fix/eliminate the common problems - chances are that's

happening in your facility too. Are you part of the solution?

What are you doing to help your nurses feel that manage-

ment cares about them and listens to their concerns?

>>I spend a lot of my time recruiting new staff.

Are you spending the same amount of time or more on

retaining the staff you already have? If you're recruiting

new staff to replace staff that left, then you're "bailing

water out of a leaking boat". What are you doing to fix

the problems that are causing your nurses to leave?

Do you even know why nurses are leaving, really?

>>Nothing is more frustrating than hiring a new staff

>>member and then having my staff treat them like dirt

>>when they go out onto the floor! Is this not counter-

>>productive??

Why is this happening? Is it not counter-productive to

continue to hire new nurses into a situation that you seem

to have no understanding or control over? Why do your

nurses act like this? Have you asked them and then really

*listened* to the answers? What have you done to fix

the problems that are causing your nuses to behave in

this manner?

>>Patience is definitely a virtue when it comes to these

>>issues. Those without lots of patience probably do

>>not make the best managers.

Listening skills help.

>>I visit these forums regularly and read what other nurses

>>are saying about the profession... wow, sometimes I am

>>appalled by what I read.

I'm appalled that it's the same all over. I cannot believe

that hospital management doesn't seem to listen and

take the time to analyze the complaints and cries for help.

Here it is, for the whole world to see - just how crappy it

is to be a nurse in a hospital/health facility setting. Yet,

management seems to turn a deaf ear to what their nurses

are saying and writing.

>>I am surprised that a nurse would come on here to tell

>>the world how horrible her/his job is. This sure does not

>>lend to the idea of attracting new people to the profession.

This is not a place to attract new people into nursing. This

is a safe place to unload and vent. And a place to get

support and help.

>>I am a big believer in making people accountable for

>>their actions and making them look at something just

>>a bit more differently.

Then make yourself accountable for the fact that your

workplace is running nurses off!!!! Try to look at your

facility's problems a little differently. Try to figure out what

you can do to make it a better place to work. Try to think

of a way to make nurses want to stay and work there.

Blaming the nurses is the same old thing and it's not very

productive. Time to look at it differently, don't you think?

>>It is up to each individual to make the difference... remember,

>>an avalanche starts with just one rolling stone....

Looked in a mirror lately? *YOU* can make a difference.

*You* can make changes in your organization that help

make your facility a place that has to turn nurses away!

Really listen to your nurses, especially the ones that are

leaving.

As you said:

>>If each individual is not part of the solution, then

>>obviously they must be part of the problem, right?

I've been an executive secretary/administrative

assistant/personal assistant for far too many years.

I've spent most of that career working for upper

management (CEO's, CFO's, VP's, and Presidents).

Believe me, I know how management works. Far too

many people in management spend too much time

talking and not near enough listening (really listening).

I could tell stories about some of the half-baked so-

called "solutions" that management would come up with

to solve problems that didn't exist. Meanwhile, the real

problems just got worse. Why? Because they only half-

listened.

Tim,

Thank you if you've read this far. Thank you for posting.

Yes, I got your point that "generally nurses tend to

portray their jobs in a negative light". Please take the

time to consider that there is a reason for that. Then

take that knowledge and make some changes! You can

do it because you're in management. You said you've

come up the ranks, and you remember what it was like.

Take that knowledge and use it to make your facility an

outstanding example of the kind of place where nurses

want to be employed. You know, the kind of place where

nurse's do not even consider looking for another job!

Be a part of the solution, Tim.

===

Again, I appreciate this board and the honesty and

frustration of the people who post here.

Sorry to be so long-winded.

Silicone

Most of you know me as I have been around for awhile. I am a student nurse and I really appreciate this board. It has given me an insight into the REAL world of nursing. Not the text book version that we are taught (although my instructors are very upfront and honest about it).

Tim, I read your post and think that you ARE a good manager. This board can give you alot of ideas to help make your place a better place to work. I understand that you have policies that you have to follow and it is those policies that seem to upset alot of the nurses that I have seen at this board.

I do have a question for you though. Are you an ACTIVE member of your state nursing association? The reason I am asking if you are active or not is I've noticed that there are those that pay their dues and watch and those that pay and are actively involved. Are you a DOER? If you are my "cap" is off to you. I strongly feel that if you are actively involved in your nursing association (attend meetings, work for the betterment of nursing etc.) then you are part of the solution. If you are not attending meetings then you are not a doer. This is for all nurses, not just you.

I like the idea of recruiting nurses, but telling the truth (all of it) is a big part of it. I went in with my eyes wide open, but when I hear the recruiting "speil" I only hear hints of the truth and it reminds me of when I went into the Air Force. The recruiters were full of promises, but when it came time to sign on the dotted line, for some reason, those promises weren't there. I went in anyway (am now a veteran) because I did my own research and my father was in also.

So please, for the sake of nursing, don't show them the bed of roses without letting them know that there are thorns on the stems too. This forum has shown me both and I love each and every nurse here for that!!!!

Specializes in Med-Surg Nursing.

Well, Tim, First of all welcome to the BB. This is by far the best site on the web for nurses and nursing students alike. I have made many new friends from different parts of the country and in other countries as well.

Having been an RN for 4 years now, I have yet to work for a good manager. This past summer, myself and another RN who work 3-11 shift had our vacation requests denied. Our Head Nurse told us we did not have enough staff to allow myself a 7 day vacation at the beginning of July and the other RN a 7 day vacation in the middle of July. Yet, the RN's on Day and Night shift were granted THEIR vacation requests.. And guess what, I got mandated overtime TWICE IN ONE WEEK(an extra 16 hours) to cover 11-7 shift while those RNs' were on vacation!!!!! Is this fair? I hardly think so! Yes, we are in the midst of a severe nursing shortage but a manager should be able to figure out that they are not gonna be able to keep staff if they do not give EVERYONE their hard earned vacation! It has been OVER A YEAR since I have had a vacation!!!!! I am in desperate need of a vacation! But I digress.

I love nursing and there is nothing else I'd rather do. But darn it, I need a vacation too you know!

Kelly:)

Well, here I am again... what is wrong with me??

I did want to reply to Silicone and some of the other most recent postings.

Yes, I am a member of the state nursing association and an active participant in the Nursing Summit Task Force for the State of Maine which is in place to address the recruitment and retainment of nurses in the state.

Thank you Silicone for taking the time to analyze my every word... geesh, you are too much! :)

I did read your entire letter and it does make sense to me. I am open minded and certainly not above receiving constructive criticism. I appreciate it actually. I am impressed with the time and effort involved in your reply as well.

I do want it to be known that I have been a manager for a long time and am very innovative in my thinking... especially when it comes to staff retainment. Retainment is key. I know that. I have been a DON for quite sometime, but am new to the facility I am located at now. The previous DON here had the attitude that "nurses were a dime a dozen" and that is how she operated, so you can well imagine that my adjustment period here over the past year has not been exactly smooth. I have put a lot of time and energy into building the nursing team and gaining their trust. We have worked together to improve morale and quite honestly... and I am not sure why a comment was made about my retention of staff being a problem... but, my retention here has shown great improvement over the past 6 months or so. I am pleased with the progress we have made.

Trust me, this little adventure on this BB has been an experience and a half for me. I was in no way expecting the response I got. And, I cannot believe how much can be read into one statement. I do, however, appreciate the fact that everyone was upfront and honest. That's great... and like I said, I have no problem with criticism. I was just not expecting so much of it all at once. Trust me, the job of DON is not an easy one.... as a few of you know... and regardless of some people's view of "management"... I am NOT one of the non-caring... money hungry... "fill the beds" type manager. My residents come first and my staff second. I am fortunate enough to work for a not-for-profit facility... opposed to my last DON position in a for-profit facility. The focus change has been awesome. I also am not totally responsible for the finances for the department... my primary focus is allowed to be on staff relations and smooth operations of my department. I am fortunate in that aspect.

P_RN... yes, I do work in long term care. I make rounds on the floor every morning. I get to spend a lot of my time "out there" with the staff and residents. I love being out there on the floor. It has taken the staff a while to get used to that, but it is going well. We are a dementia-focused facility and I love having that one focus. It is a great thing. (I do, however, wonder if dementia is contagious!) I have my moments... some days more than others. (yes, I have rough days too... just like everyone else.... there he goes... moaning and complaining just like the rest of them...;) )

So... that is it for now...

Tim

Everyone who submits ideas or opinions on this bulletin board has a right to do so.Thats what it is here for.You must realize if you post,that someone may not agree with your line of thinking,or maybe just a part of it,and they will say so. Thats okay.Its not a discussion if no one else responds.We won't learn anything if no one challenges us.My few comments on this particular thread may echo what has already been said. Some (not all) nurse managers, I believe, have forgotten the changes that have occurred over the past few years.Nurses who had 7 pts on days a few years ago could handle it fairly well.The pts were usually in various stages of recovery.Some acute,some midway,and some ready to go home, ..up walking the halls,showering, etc. Now,almost ALL of our pts are in the acute stage of illness.Almost as soon as they are awake from surgery,they are being pushed out the door.Yet,nurses are asked to push the limits and still care for the same amt.of pts with less staff.Long before there was a true shortage of nurses,there were cutbacks in staffing.Trying to cut the budget.Nurses WERE a dime a dozen, and we were taken advantage of.Many nurses left this profession.Too much stress,long hours of hard work,and very little appreciation;not to mention poor pay.This is what led to the real shortage.Nurses complained.No one listened; and they left.Now we have a true nursing shortage,and for other reasons than the one given above,I know.Listen to us when we say we need more help.If its not there,then say so. But don't say we are whiners, and must work smarter,etc.,etc.,etc..Have some compassion for us (and our poor pts who are the other losers in this condition).Nurses have to speak up and share their problems with one another. Just because we know the problem,doesn't mean we know the solution.This is one place we feel we can vent and share ideas.Know what it is like elsewhere.We need this place.I know this is longwinded.Please don't attack me.Speak your mind, but be kind when you do!

managers have completey different problems than the staff nurse. not that they are any worse or better. harder or not. just different. they answer to different people than we do and have different issues.

managers remember what its like in the trenches but they have a different perspective and focus. we dont worry about recruitment lin the same way management does. we are looking at the now picture. they are looking long term. they dont worry about patient care on the same level as we do.

dont expect us to see eye to eye. many of us resent management for their lack of concern in regards to OUR issues. at the same time we blatently dont care about their issues.

tim is right about nurses bashing the profession. ive always wondered why we do that. i just take it back to nurses eat their young. i encourage people to consider the profession. im not negative about it to the students. i love being a nurse. i just hate the bullshit put on us by the management. from state boards all the way down.

in your post tim you openly resent our attitude. at the same time you seem upset that some of us resent yours.

all of us are looking at the same crooked picture. we are just seeing different ways to straighten it. but we all agree it needs to be straightened.

I do believe nurses are causing their problems. I've been a navy nurse for 10 years, and I know that when I leave the navy I'll leave nursing. If I took a civilian job I would be fired, because I would never put up with being treated like dirt and working like a dog with out any respect.

Good for the nurses who have moved on to a better future, pay, and working conditions.

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