Nurses.... Our Own Worst Enemies??

[MaineNurse67]

I keep reading all the messages posted by everyone in this forum and I have to just keep asking myself... how much of the nursing shortage problems are being caused by nurses themselves??

I feel that each individual is responsible for how they portray themselves and their professions. If we portray our profession in a negative light, then who wants to join??

If each individual is not part of the solution, then obviously they must be part of the problem, right?

Well, I am a Director of Nursing at a 125-bed facility in Maine. Yes, I am part of the "dreaded" management... a term that I am just fed up with. Nothing makes me angrier than when I hear the statement "management doesn't care" or "we get no support from management." Well, I have to tell you that we are all in the same big boat.

I spend a lot of my time recruiting new staff. Nothing is more frustrating than hiring a new staff member and then having my staff treat them like dirt when they go out onto the floor! Is this not counter-productive?? Many of the same staff that act in such a manner are the very same staff who come into my office to complain if they have to work short!!! UGH!!! This makes no sense to me!! Why is it that people have to behave this way? I have spent many hours with my staff in trying to get this point across... and I have to say that one by one, they are catching on. And.... believe it or not, I am beginning to see a difference. It just takes time and takes patience in hitting the idea home.

I also spend time talking with high school kids and promoting the profession. I am amazed at some of the ideas that kids have about the nursing profession... yet again, one by one, you have to start changing the image of the nursing profession. The press and other nurses have tainted people's view of the profession and it does take a lot of time and effort to change these images.

Patience is definitely a virtue when it comes to these issues. Those without lots of patience probably do not make the best managers.

I visit these forums regularly and read what other nurses are saying about the profession... wow, sometimes I am appalled by what I read. I am surprised that a nurse would come on here to tell the world how horrible her/his job is. This sure does not lend to the idea of attracting new people to the profession. It makes me very curious if these are some of the same nurses who frequent their DON's office to complain about working short. I love to bring those people's attention to this fact and do so often. I am a big believer in making people accountable for their actions and making them look at something just a bit more differently.

Promoting the nursing profession in a negative light certainly is not helping the cause.

Think about it the next time you make a complaint.

Thanks for listening (or reading!)

It is up to each individual to make the difference... remember, an avalanche starts with just one rolling stone....

Peace to all.... Tim Knight

[rjlrn95]

We can all talk/write until we're blue in the face and this guy Tim is not going to "get It". Too uptight and too mngmt already.

[rjlrn95]

I must quickly retract that last post, Tim is getting it!!!!

This is a great place for support, venting and just whining some days. As for bonster, well, every field of work is full of back stabbing, etc........... But this is the only I've been happy in and want to keep doing.

Kudo's to Slicone as well, don't let the world change you.

[P_RN, ADN, RN]

Oh gosh I hate to say this...but RN4peds......are you a new RN or have you been out in the world awhile? I welcome you to this board.

We don't need to get into another round of internal fighting about degrees.

I don't see this at all as a discussion of competence based on "degree."

What the initial discussion was (IMHO) was the stating of conditions in the profession that are becoming more and more unreasonable.

Read this as bitc*ing or whatever, but how could SO MANY nurses from SO MANY different places and units all find they share the same conditions shown towards them?

[frustratedRN]

we DO help each other and we DO support each other. and we do vent.

if there is arrogance here i dont see it...and if im guilty i dont mean to be.

bonster do you really expect us to tell you those lies?

you get the same kinds of attitudes in any job you take. the same "kinds" of people work everywhere.

it doesnt matter what profession you choose, you will encounter them.

the whole bsn/adn/diploma thing is retarded.

if the bsn's think they are better nurses than the adns and the adns think they are better than the diplomas....all based on education, thats kinda short sighted.

credit is given for life experience. not everything you learn is in a book.

maybe entry level SHOULD be bsn but its not so just get over it.

im an adn...im going to get my bsn to satisfy MYSELF. will it make me a better nurse? maybe, maybe not.

im so tired of competition, especially on our unit. im not competing with anyone. im just doing what im supposed to and trying to learn the best way to help my patients.

as far as im concerned anyone who wants to be queen nurse has my blessings.

was that arrogant?

hmm...maybe

lol

[RN4peds]

Lots of frustration. Glad to hear you are improving yourself. That's what we all should be doing. When I hear responses to comments like I have made, it is usually from nurses who haven't been able to accomplish their goals and find it easier to complain than to actively seek improvement. Nursing must have a minimum standard in order to compete with other professions that do(physicians for example, do you want one with less?). It is the only way we will be seen professionally. I have been a Clinical Nurse Specialist for 12 years and have seen and heard it all just as I have read here. You guys are stagnant. Move on to something else. Different hospital or department. Something isn't right when you are so unhappy. As for me, I will continue to raise the bar for nursing. It's the only way to attract new people into this profession and get the respect we deserve.

[bonster]

FrustratedRN... yep! You sound arrogant. Well, maybe just frustrated. Have you ever considered just quitting if you hate nursing so much?

I've been in the world long enough to know that where ever you have a lot of women.. you have a LOT of complaining and whining. You never seem to see people honestly grateful for being alive, and healthy and able to work... only whining. I think THAT is why there is a nursing shortage. There is so much complaining or competition that no one wants to jump in with the wolves. YOu know what else? It seems to me that nurses LIKE the fact there is a shortage! I think it somehow makes them feel indispensible. How rediculous. It's a JOB for goodness sakes, nurses are not rocket scientists.

[Deekie]

i'm new to this forum, but have been internet friendly for many years. mea culpa for the length of this letter but would like to have people know a bit about me before i start my rant!! lol. if you make it to the end then thank you for listening!!. i you just can't wade through...i understand.

i graduated from nursing school with a bsn at the age of 45,( i am 49 now), so terrified by my lack of knowlege that i was barely capable of applying for positions most of the time. this was no one's fault but my own lack of confidence in my ability ( btw i graduated #2 in my class with a 3.98 gpa). that was not said to brag, as i had absolutely no confidence in my ability to be the kind of nurse i had always wanted to become. i saw the negativity of the profession throughout clinicals and yet i still felt i could not live up to my ideal as a professional nurse. ( and yes, i truly believe that many nurses do eat their young...one of the few species with this peculiar characteristic).

trying here to make a long story short and not succeeding. i decided to move out of state, sent out 8 resumes to ltc facilities and hospitals, gave them the dates i would be in the state and available for interviews and received responses from all 8. i interviewed for all 8 supervisors and was offered positions by all. boy did my confidence level go up within a 3 day period. i was like a kid in a candy store!!!i chose ltc because it interested me the most. i started out on day shift as a medicare charge nurse in a 92 bed facility.

yes, there were days my don made me cry...i'm sometimes positive she thrived on it even, but i survived and learned and finally realized " i am a good nurse" "i am becoming the kind of nurse i always wanted to be". luckily i had a very understanding, patient adon. i even eventually learned to "suck it up" when my don took her frustrations out on me. i stood up for my cna's and lpn's when necessary and i think i have gained the respect of my peers and management. in fact, i was just promoted to adon and am still gasping in amazement at the possibility. yes, i ***** about the nursing shortages, but i also try to accentuate the positive side of nursing ( too many to enumerate).

my point here is this: #1). tim, when i initially read your first post it angered me a bit. then i chilled out and tried to think about what you said. things calmed down. tim, you sound like the kind of don who will get things done to me.

#2.)as to degree status, when i was in the bsn program i thought that was the only way to go. that it would make me a "better" nurse. but i can honestly admit that i've learned more from lpn's than anyone in the way of procedures, techniques, med passes etc. i also realize that there are many nurses who feel that in order to "professionalise" the career, only bsn's should be offered. we are going to professionalize this career right out of this world if there are not position and degree differences. we will never be doctors or lawyers and we might as well face it!!! i think most of all we want our profession respected. i'm not going to complain about pay...i'm not going to complain about working short, or working 60 hours a week, or even about unappreciative staff, residents, management or family members. finally, i am taking issue with a statement i just read made by

rn4peds. and i quote "ask your self the following

questions: are you providing constructive input or are you whining (which is what i'm hearing here)? are you happy with yourself? i find that most of the time nurses criticize when they are not. these nurses usually don't take care of themselves; overweight/obese, high dysfunction at home, and

undereducated or close-minded individuals. i would like to nursing to be seen as true professionals and to do this we must start by expecting more

educationally by having a minimum standard of a 4-year degree (with clinical/didatic covered thoroughly). why should we expect less? would we

of physicians? "

you are of course entitled to your opinion but the degree of animosity you hold toward others who do not have your "level of education" appalls me. your attitute that "most" people who complain are overweight, dysfunctional, and undereducated is such oversimplification that i certainly hope i never have the terror of working with or for you. if you hold your co-workers in such disdain, how in the world do you function on a daily basis? vent on brother and sister nurses, the sanity you save may be your own.

deekster!!!!

[P_RN, ADN, RN]

Preach Sister Deekster!

And RN4peds. May I say that I do respect your having gotten as far as you have. Being a CNS is admirable for those who choose it.

However, many of us did not choose that path. Your trials and tribulations as a CNS are quite different than those I or many others here have had. The level of entry of course is your own opinion. It's not going to change now or even next week.

If all of us were to be MSN prepared CNS's then who is going to give the meds, do the assessments etc? If all are BSN's then what is to become of those who cannot afford to go back to school? Are they going to be cast aside? I see no argument among the people here.

One of these days I think I'll spit out all the alphabet soup behind my name and pontificate, but not today. Since I was 17 years old I wanted to be a nurse. That's forty years! I write my name and follow it with only RN.

And if I come here and want to BIT*H and my cohorts here will listen, I expect to do just that. And if you want to do the same I guarantee I will listen.

That's what has held this country together these last several weeks....the "I may not agree with what you say......but I will defend.....your right to say it." If you don't want to listen then that's OK too.

Just give us that, OK?

P

[Mijourney]

Essarge, I liked your thoughtful comments. Hopefully reading this bb will help reduce any reality shock that you may experience once you become licensed as a nurse.

Tim, welcome to the bb. My posts also get criticized from time to time, and I have also done my share of criticizing. However, I try, if possible to "go with the flow" or "take it all in stride", because my basic premise for participating on this bb is to give the good, if possible, with the bad and the ugly from my point of view. I have been known to change my point of view from time to time depending on a variety of factors. If we've offended you or you're feeling vulnerable as a manager on an all nurse bb, you can leave the bb and that would spare you from us. Or, you can find your niche on this bb and go with that. If I'm not mistaken, there is a forum for managers. That may be one area you want to pursue for starters.

If you stay on the bb, you may want to consider following the examples of some of our moderators and posters and present referenced articles in favor of management if you believe you're being victimized because you're a manager. Many articles presented on this bb become the stimulus for a good debate or discussion. Many of the articles presented are unbiased, informative, and/or give us food for thought.

[challis]

Hi Tim & Hi Everyone,

I believe that, at least here in Australia, attitudes towards nursing wont improve until there is a "generational shift". Many years ago nurses were taught in the "hospital system". That is they were basically trained "on the floor" and attended classes within the nursing education centre at their specific hospital. Now nursing education in Australia is through TAFE colleges (to train as an enrolled nurse) & university (to train as a registered nurse). Presently there are still many "hospital system trained" nurses around. Any yes, I have and still do work with many of them.

Many of those I have worked with (& still do work with) have a very poor attitude to nursing. university trained nurses, enrolled nurses etc. They count down the days until they retire, the complain about university trained RN's, they complain that enrolled nurses are only around for cheap labour & will ultimately take their jobs!

When I was a student nurse, I was treated very badly by SOME of these hospital trained nurses - to the point that I nearly left my training. I have also seen student nurses who come to my workplace on Clinical Practicals be treated poorly.

I feel that attitudes to nursing MAY change in years to come when more university/TAFE trained nurses are in the system. In my workplace we are severly understaffed, with management unable to retain new employees.

Please be aware that I am NOT criticising all hospital trained nurses :) I have worked with many university/TAFE trained nurses who also have poor attitudes to the profession. I have (& currently do) work with many hospital trained nurses who have fabulous attitudes and have taught me much - their experience is invaluable. I am just concerned with the small minority that I have personally encounted.

:)