Need help figuring out what happened to this guy!?!?

Nurses General Nursing

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Ok at the end of my shift something very strange happened with my patient. My patient was a young guy who had been an alcoholic for quite some time. Was admitted with DT's and pancreatitis. He has been in and out of the hospital for a year. He is very debilitated... can't walk and is extremely weak. He was taken off the ventilator last week and moved up to my medical floor. He is A&O to person and place. He seems like all of this has made him a little slow but he knows what is going on. He has a PEG and we are trying to get him to start eating. He is swallowing fine....

He had a good day yesterday. He sat in the chair for 45 minutes and pretty much had a non-eventful day. He wears 2L NC... He is also diabetic.... Ok so at about 1800 I went in to hang an antibiotic and he seemed to be sleeping.. His tray still was sitting on his bedside table and he hadn't been set up to eat.. So I tried to wake him up. He was extremely lethargic and I was only able to get a response after doing a sternal rub. I quickly got a SQBS which was 120... vitals were fine... temp 98 BP 130/70 HR 88 RR 18 O2 sat 98%.... So i repeatedly stimulated him until he was able to tell me that he was tired... He knew who he was but told me he was at the bank trying to cash a check? I reoriented him.. and when I asked him how he felt he said crappy..... (the assistant had been in there 30 minutes ago to change him and said he was awake then).... All he had that day that would make him drowsy was 1 percocet at 1400

Well 20 minutes later I went back and he was out again.. This time I could NOT stimulate him to wake up... Sternal rub... nail bed stimulation...nothing! I got another nurse in there and we took vitals again and continued trying to stimulate him and couldn't... vitals were fine... The only thing he would do when we would stimulate him was flutter his eye lids.....

I immediately paged his primary physician who was in house... He ordered a stat ABG and said he was coming up right then.... Well I go back in the room to wait for respiratory... I tried stimulating him again and got nothing.... He looked bad too.. he was breathing good though.... So I'm standing in the hall waiting for the doc/respiratory.. They get there in about 3 minutes... Respiratory walked in the room with the MD.... The doctor calls his name and he opens his eyes and says. "what?" They look at me and say ... "he's fine.... he's awake!! why did you call us??" I AM SPEECHLESS!!!! I don't understand!! All I could do was swear up and down that he wasn't fine a minute ago.. Now he is alert and oriented and answering their questions!!!!! How can he go from completely nonresponsive to talking in 2 minutes... They drew the ABG and it was normal...

The doctor and the resp therapist made me feel so stupid for calling... Another nurse was with me and told them that he really was nonresponsive a minute ago... I am just so confused.. And I feel stupid for calling!! I really just don't understand what happened.....

Specializes in Cardiac.
ok so i love to watch the show mystery diagnosis, it sounds like poisoning, and signs of begining liver failure. has anyone done a full tox panel on him?

yeah it's poisoning! alcohol poisoning!

this is typical of alcoholics. their mental status ebbs and flows. sometimes they are coherent and awake, sometimes disoriented and lethargic. sometimes all in the same day...

i just had a pt like this last week. he would go from crawling out of bed to hypotensive and unresponsive several times daily.

BTW is anyone bring him food or drinks?

i was thinking along these lines, but was wondering about taking illegal substances/drugs, or etoh.

i also agree w/vicky, about ammonia levels.

leslie

Thinking hepatic encephalopathy, and yeah, wicked high ammonia levels.

http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic3185.htm

Check this site out--some symptoms that sound a bit like your pt.

Someone else mentioned they were curious how he is right now--he may be having a bad night :(

And as far as the doc's response--REGARDLESS of what s/he saw, based on your report alone it sounds like a full investigation was in order. You did your job. Hopefully this guy will get treated properly this weekend.

-Kan

Yeah it's poisoning! Alcohol poisoning!

This is typical of alcoholics. Their mental status ebbs and flows. Sometimes they are coherent and awake, sometimes disoriented and lethargic. Sometimes all in the same day...

I just had a pt like this last week. He would go from crawling out of bed to hypotensive and unresponsive several times daily.

you have way more experiance then I do but one thing I have learned is that the most obvious answer isnt always the correct one. yes his liver is impaired due to the excessive alcohol instake but if hes in the hospital and he is behaving as though hes still on the bottle then how is that possible? unlless hes getting outside food or drinks , a poison is working its way thru his system other than alcohol which i think work work its way thru faster than a few days, i could be wrong I dont have alot of experiance with alcoholic patients. point is it could be something else not just the drinking.

Specializes in ICU, ER.

You would feel more stupid if you didn't call and something happened. Ignore the doc and RT; trust yourself. You did the right thing.

Specializes in ORTHOPAEDICS-CERTIFIED SINCE 89.

Is he getting any replacemnt thiamine? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernicke's_encephalopathy

And NEVER NEVER fear calling for your patient. The person's comment was snide and uncalled for. Your are his advocate not his apologist.

Ok at the end of my shift something very strange happened with my patient. My patient was a young guy who had been an alcoholic for quite some time. Was admitted with DT's and pancreatitis. He has been in and out of the hospital for a year. He is very debilitated... can't walk and is extremely weak. He was taken off the ventilator last week and moved up to my medical floor. He is A&O to person and place. He seems like all of this has made him a little slow but he knows what is going on. He has a PEG and we are trying to get him to start eating. He is swallowing fine....

He had a good day yesterday. He sat in the chair for 45 minutes and pretty much had a non-eventful day. He wears 2L NC... He is also diabetic.... Ok so at about 1800 I went in to hang an antibiotic and he seemed to be sleeping.. His tray still was sitting on his bedside table and he hadn't been set up to eat.. So I tried to wake him up. He was extremely lethargic and I was only able to get a response after doing a sternal rub. I quickly got a SQBS which was 120... vitals were fine... temp 98 BP 130/70 HR 88 RR 18 O2 sat 98%.... So i repeatedly stimulated him until he was able to tell me that he was tired... He knew who he was but told me he was at the bank trying to cash a check? I reoriented him.. and when I asked him how he felt he said crappy..... (the assistant had been in there 30 minutes ago to change him and said he was awake then).... All he had that day that would make him drowsy was 1 percocet at 1400

Well 20 minutes later I went back and he was out again.. This time I could NOT stimulate him to wake up... Sternal rub... nail bed stimulation...nothing! I got another nurse in there and we took vitals again and continued trying to stimulate him and couldn't... vitals were fine... The only thing he would do when we would stimulate him was flutter his eye lids.....

I immediately paged his primary physician who was in house... He ordered a stat ABG and said he was coming up right then.... Well I go back in the room to wait for respiratory... I tried stimulating him again and got nothing.... He looked bad too.. he was breathing good though.... So I'm standing in the hall waiting for the doc/respiratory.. They get there in about 3 minutes... Respiratory walked in the room with the MD.... The doctor calls his name and he opens his eyes and says. "what?" They look at me and say ... "he's fine.... he's awake!! why did you call us??" I AM SPEECHLESS!!!! I don't understand!! All I could do was swear up and down that he wasn't fine a minute ago.. Now he is alert and oriented and answering their questions!!!!! How can he go from completely nonresponsive to talking in 2 minutes... They drew the ABG and it was normal...

The doctor and the resp therapist made me feel so stupid for calling... Another nurse was with me and told them that he really was nonresponsive a minute ago... I am just so confused.. And I feel stupid for calling!! I really just don't understand what happened.....

I had a little old lady that did this once! Scared the crap outta me! She would seriously be like comatose...all her vitals were stable though and her breathing would be fine. We tried everything....sternal rubs..moving her...NOTHING WORKED! Then she would kinda 'pop' out of it like everything was fine. I think they ended up determining she had high Aspirin level....her son would give her 2 tabs asa when she got confused...he said they were TIA's...??? The woman was probably early onset alzhimers...anyways that was the problem. Good luck, keep us updated!:balloons:

Specializes in Cardiac.
you have way more experiance then I do but one thing I have learned is that the most obvious answer isnt always the correct one. yes his liver is impaired due to the excessive alcohol instake but if hes in the hospital and he is behaving as though hes still on the bottle then how is that possible? unlless hes getting outside food or drinks , a poison is working its way thru his system other than alcohol which i think work work its way thru faster than a few days, i could be wrong I dont have alot of experiance with alcoholic patients. point is it could be something else not just the drinking.
..

I see this type of behavior all the time with alcoholics. And yes, it happens for several days after their last drink. Unfortunately, I have tons of experience with alcoholics and DTs.

And although the most obvious answer isn't always the right one, it is usually the most likely. If I were on the floor, and this pt situation happened, I still would have done the same thing as the OP...

i was thinking along these lines, but was wondering about taking illegal substances/drugs, or etoh.

i also agree w/vicky, about ammonia levels.

leslie

yup, to both.....also ?psych, maybe he was choosing to ignore you?

Specializes in Cardiac.

I thought of that too! I've had many an alcoholic ignore even a good sternal rub. But they can never seen to ignore the "hold the arm above the head and drop it" technique...

They look at me and say ... "he's fine.... he's awake!! why did you call us??" The doctor and the resp therapist made me feel so stupid for calling...

First off, you're definatley NOT stupid for calling. Like a previous poster mentioned, what if something was acutely wrong and you didn't call?! Second off, how can an MD (or RT or RN or PT or anyone for that matter) walk in, look at a Pt, and KNOW that they are "fine"?!?!?! That's crap! I worked with a therapist that would give major 'tude if she did'nt think the Pt warranted a call or rapid response. All that does is make the nurse (esp. new grads) hesitant to call in the future. Any GOOD practitioner would rather get called to an "emergency" and find everything is under control rather than having to deal with a real code or something. Can you tell this is a pet peeve of mine?

I agree w/ Liverpool Jane,

I was thinking ammonia levels.

Sorry the doc and the RT doubted you.

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