Medication Nurse Assistants - page 17
Hi everyone. I just found out that an MNA will be working on our 50 bed LTC unit:eek: ! Has anyone worked with an MNA? I'm a new LPN, just got used to passing meds to 25 pts, and am really on the... Read More
Jan 2, '06I just talked to a friend of mine that lives in nebraska where i use to live and work and she said starting today 1-1-06 they will no longer be using med aides which is what there called there she wasn't sure if it was a facility choice or a state choice but it's interesting to know anyhow
Jan 2, '06how much training does a medication nurse assistant have and are they alowed to give morphine drips and start ivs? or are they only allowed to give pills amd licquid mediactions? i dont know if i would feel conortable haveing a mna giveing me meds . and whats up with them getting 3 dollars more an hr i read on a post thats not fair because an lpn and rns bust theer buts through school and now to find out that a mna will be getting paid more id talk to someone about that like maby a union rep i would trust a lpn an rn or a resgerited nurse practioner or a md to give me meds. but you nver know it might be a good idea.
Jan 2, '06Quote from lpn5555I am working on legislation in my state for lpn's to take an hour course on delivering babies with no liability, more pay as lpn but not as big a salary as doctors, but we'll be saving the hospitals money. Contact your legislaters in your state today!
i think thats a great idea lpn555 because if ther isnt an rn around or the doctors are busy then the lpns can start the delvery process . but then would the lpns get a md or someone if thyer are compliactions or would they be traing on how to fix the complactions.
Jan 2, '06I think this is a dangerous situation for the patients and any nurse that holds a liscence in these facilities.
Another issue here is relying more on unliscensed personell is devaluing nursing. Nurses do not just blindly follow orders and here is a pill and a glass of water. There needs to be a liscensed person administering medication because IF YOU CAN GIVE MEDICATION YOU CAN KILL SOMEONE!
Jan 3, '06Quote from nursedave907The requirements vary from state to state. The course content varies from organization to organization. The responsibilities vary from state to state and organization to organization. I did not find any states that sanctioned medication assistants giving IV meds or starting IVs.how much training does a medication nurse assistant have and are they alowed to give morphine drips and start ivs? or are they only allowed to give pills amd licquid mediactions? i dont know if i would feel conortable haveing a mna giveing me meds . and whats up with them getting 3 dollars more an hr i read on a post thats not fair because an lpn and rns bust theer buts through school and now to find out that a mna will be getting paid more id talk to someone about that like maby a union rep i would trust a lpn an rn or a resgerited nurse practioner or a md to give me meds. but you nver know it might be a good idea.
Jan 3, '06Oh No!!! I have writen extensivly on this subject in various threads on here. Med aides in Texas have a 3 month course ( 2 days a week for 3 hours normaly) and take a 10 hour clinical. They are allowed to pass PO pills, give eye drops , supp (vag and rect), ear drops, nasal inhalers and thats about it. They are not allowed to give inhalers (mouth) or breathing treatments. They are allowed to give Roxanols and subling meds but that starts to get me nervous. No IV's what so ever. My husband tells me he was a med aide in OK and he could check blood sugars , give insulin and give GT meds. I told him that is way out of the scope of your practice whether your allowed to do it or not legally. If ya dont have the med-surg to back up what your doing it .... then dont do it!!!!
Quote from nursedave907how much training does a medication nurse assistant have and are they alowed to give morphine drips and start ivs? or are they only allowed to give pills amd licquid mediactions? i dont know if i would feel conortable haveing a mna giveing me meds . and whats up with them getting 3 dollars more an hr i read on a post thats not fair because an lpn and rns bust theer buts through school and now to find out that a mna will be getting paid more id talk to someone about that like maby a union rep i would trust a lpn an rn or a resgerited nurse practioner or a md to give me meds. but you nver know it might be a good idea.
Jan 3, '06While it may be true that tech's may have more in depth knowledge of medications nurses (LVN's) have the extensive med-surge, and clinical knowledge to know whether to give that pill or not. You may know every detail about that pill but do you have the information reguarding all the disease processes (which you may ) and the patient condition (assessment skills ) in order to give the med. It does not matter if you go to school 9 months or 9 years it the content you receive while your there. So I will have to disagree with your take on pharm tech and giving meds. When it comes down to it, I think LVN's are more qualified for the job.
Quote from BipleyWell, let's look at this. In an ideal world only a BSN is going to give meds. But this isn't an ideal world. I am going to get slammed for this but I'm going to write it anyway. Let's compare a CPhT (licensed and certified such as my students will be) against an LPN. The LPN has learned a great many skills in school including patient care, procedures, etc. The tech has really focused on what? Meds. I'm sorry but a licensed and certified tech is going to know more pharmacology and pharm related issues vs. an LPN. When passing meds what is the primary focus? How to insert a foley and start an IV or how to know when to give HGH, how to administer it, and what the side effects are going to be? While the LPN is going to be able to do more tasks than a CPhT, the CPhT is going to know more about the drug, who should be getting it, what it is for, and what side effects to watch for.
My thinking is this... medicine has become SO huge, so complicated, so specialized that what docs used to do, RNs do today. What RNs used to do, LPNs do today. What LPNs used to do, PCTs do today. We have to have these allied professionals because there is no way a nurse could do everything. It's impossible. As it stands now we don't have enough time with our patients, when we have one go sour the rest are sometimes not given the time they need, we are running our back sides off and really, we are spinning our wheels. We aren't doing our jobs the way we are supposed to and whether or not we like it the money just isn't there to replace allied health with nurses. It isn't going to happen.
So instead of screaming and kicking and letting others make the decisions about who will give our patients their meds, why shouldn't we be proactive and help create a workable system. How much time would you have if someone else did ALL your POs and perhaps SQs? Maybe even IMs? How much time would that free up? What could you do now that you aren't able to do because you simply don't have the time? It isn't going to change, we aren't going to replace allied health with RNs so let's create a GOOD system vs. what the idiots have created with CNAs that are passing out pills like they would water pitchers? There is NO CNA that is going to pass MY meds, it won't happen. While I am quite sure there are a couple of really good ones out there, I don't know them and they aren't touching my keys and there is no discussion about it. I wouldn't work in any facility where a CNA could pass meds. Not even a Tylenol.
However if I had an option I could work with, it would be CPhTs. They have the potential to do a good job.
Are you aware that pharmacy has been lobbying for a new level of pharmacy? It's more than a tech and less than an RPh. In a retail setting they would do refills and essentially anything except for new orders and patient counseling. No RPh checking their work. It would be a 2 year program vs. the PharmD trend now. It would free up the RPh to do the same thing we are looking for in having our time opened a little. They need time to do what someone else can easily do. We need time to do what someone else could easily do.
Currently techs are giving flu injections at flu injection clinics, they are doing vitals at BP clinics, they are already out there doing this. This isn't something brand new.
BTW, techs currently go to school from 9 months - 2 years depending on the program. When they leave school they can do the same with a 9 month program as with a 2 year program. So in some cases they have as much education as an RN and more than an LPN.
LOL... that's changing too. RU486??? I forget what it's called. The morning after pill. In some states it most certainly is prescribed and dispensed by an RPh. There are a few other exceptions too.
And when a nurse calls a hospital pharmacy, depending on the hospital often times it is the techs answering your questions.
I just want to see a system that works. Otherwise the idiots (whoever they are that create stooooopid rules, regs, and laws) will have CNAs pushing morphine in no time.
Jan 3, '06Quote from txspadequeen921I never advocated ANYONE other than a nurse giving meds. What I explained throughout this thread is that it is going to happen. They are eventually going to take away passing meds from nurses. When they do that would you prefer a mna or a cpht give them? **IF** the trend continues and nurses don't pass meds anymore, who would you rather do it if it isn't a nurse?No a nurse!!!
I darn well want the person to have a good solid understanding of the drugs and what they are for, side effects to watch for, etc. A mna isn't it.
Jan 8, '06I work as a mna and i DO NOT get even close to the pay as a lpn/rn i make 10 bucks and hour that is only 50 cent's more then a cna makes. Also I am NOT allowed to do any kind of iv's the only injections i can give is insulin and only some facilitys utalize us in that way we are allowed to give neb tx's but again it's up to the facility.
Jan 7, '09I know this thread is older, but I found it very interesting as an "old lady new to nursing".
This is Wisconsin's required education for Certified Medication Assistant:
68 hours of lecture, practice labs, and 40 hours of clinical which takes place with a registered nurse preceptor at the student’s work site. The student is required to have worked a minimum of 40 hours, within the last 90 days, with the residents to whom the student will be administering medications. 2000 hours working as a CNA.
Additionally, CNA's must:
- Be recommended in writing by the Director of Nursing and Administrator of the agency in which the student will be working during the clinical experience
- Be recommended in writing by two (2) Licensed Charge Nurses, one of who must be a Registered Nurse.
Food for thought...
ChrisLast edit by AgriWoman on Jan 7, '09 : Reason: added additional information
Jan 8, '09I have IV infusions for my rheumatoid arthritis at my Dr. Office, They are all MA's, starting IVs, mixing infusions and treating reactions. It;s legal in Florida in an outpt. setting. Too bad they canever get the iv's in. I always have one of my coworkers put a saline lock in before Igo to the office (haad to get it cleared with administration, and buy my own iv caths from the rheumey's office)