Hi everyone. I just found out that an MNA will be working on our 50 bed LTC unit:eek: ! Has anyone worked with an MNA? I'm a new LPN, just got used to passing meds to 25 pts, and am really on the fence about this. On one hand, I'm disgusted that I spent 13 G's obtaining my LPN, and struggled through a tough Pharmacology course :angryfire . On the other, maybe this will be a help. I really like working alone on my side. I keep people(LNAs, residents, visitors) around my cart at a mininum, cause I find it distracting. Am I going to be constantly bumping into the MNA? How does it work? BTW, there has been NO mention of an orientation for the nurses in regards to this. Oh, and the MNA will be earning 3 dollars an hour more than I do. Hmmm. any feedback will be welcome:) .
Although i said i was done here, and after typing this, i'm definitely not coming back to continue to watch someone rip my chosen career apart on limited knowledge of it, or to watch those that agree with med techs being labeled "idiots". This does nothing to prove the validity of someone's point.
(and also, to address another comment, when i want to know about a med, i ask for the pharmacist, not the tech.)
I thank you for your comment.I would never rip your chosen career apart or imply limited knowledge...I have the most respect for nurses and what they do and how much responsibility they have.
a lot of these judgments on CNAs is based on the bad ones. not the good ones out there that nurses are glad to have on their staff. I am one of those idiots. And all you nurses have proved your point or has given valid arguments. There are exceptions to rule. So don't put all MEDTechs in the same category as idiots. Stones can be thrown in the Licensed direction also. With many years in a hospital i have seen many many idiot nurses, but i do not put all of them in that category.When working at the hospital I as an excellent CNA have saved many nurses from making big mistakes. I'm not talking medications. A patient getting blood transfusions, it is the CNA's job to monitor vitals every 30 min. it is the CNA.s job to keep checking the patient. I knew reactions faster than the nurse who had the patient. She had just come out of the room as i was walking in and i find the patients face as red as can be as if she had just spent 2 hours sunbathing. When asking the husband how long her face has been that red he said it just started 10 min ago.I ran for that nurse knowing she was having a reaction to the blood. Although the nurse was very appreciative, i wonder how did she miss that when she was just in there. A patient was lethargic, having had this patient for the last 3 days i knew this was unusual for her. A nurse asked me to help get the patient up in the chair and bring her out to The hall so she could keep an eye on her. She said she was over medicated and was waiting for the MD to call back. I knew something else was wrong and when the nurse came to help get her up, the patient could not even say her name. I asked to take her blood sugar, the nurse got insulted with a cna asking that. she said she is not a diabetic. We tried again to get her up but she was like a rag doll. I refused to get her up and insisted on taking her blood sugar. i asked Do we have to have an order for that? her anguish at me was obvious. I went to our charge nurse and he said take it. Well what do you know it was 27...That nurse had never moved so fast. And apologized afterwords. She was in tears. why. She didn't know.....Should have in my opinion. or at least listen to us who spend more time with the patients. A patient being discharged in the afternoon calls out. says to me i need help back to the bed i am very dizzy. I took her vitals it was 82/ 45. i check her vital status from admission time. this was very low for her. Nurse is on the phone talking a personal call. i leave a note and hand it to her asking to please re-take the vitals, she nods and stays on the phone another 10 min. i come back and asked the unit secretary if she had gone in yet she said no. I find the nurse in the break room and she said YES i read the note. ok back to my business.
30 min go by, has not gone in yet. i speak to her again... her comment.....She is not my biggest priority. she is a DNR......This lady had cancer, but was in for pneumonia and being dischaarged....I was so mad i went to the charge nurse about it. All i know is the next thing hell broke loose, the MD came flying up to the floor and was totally upset. I felt horrible, the nurse was in the break room crying and called me in and said i mistook her comments. As a nurse you should know that a DNR does not mean we neglect treating. I did not mistake her comment...A code is called in one of our rooms. I am near the code cart so i run with it...patient on the floor out cold....Everyone and thier uncle is in the room. MD on the floor. ( not his patient) is in the room looking up his history in the chart. NUrse incharge of this patient can't be found. ( Travel nurse ) I help the ordely get patient on the bed he begins convulsions. as me and the charge nurse roll him over as everyone is trying to figure out what happened and is wrong , i realize this mans body is very warm. I asked the nurse to hand me the tempanic.. OOPs.. his temp is 105.4....i check the vital board and it was recorded at 3:20 pm as 97.5. it is now 4:15...How did this happen.The nurse incharge of this patient had not had the time to assess him yet and had not been seen by a nurse since the shift began...I have many more stories.
all this boils down to is nurses are so overwhelmed by their jobs they need GOOD CNA.s or other types of help. I'm sick of hearing all the bad mouthing of CNA's being lazy. stupid and idiots.There are many many excellent ones out there. I know work as a Medtech in an assisting living. And as i have said before we do not belong anywhere else. But it can work in this type of environment. I have experience. 10 years oncology 1 1/2 years RN schooling. and PASSED Pharmacology....passed all my clinicals. did my rotations. 2 semesters to go and had to Leave for family medical reasons.,...I am NOT saying i am as qualified as a nurse. But i am qualified to handle assisted living patients... Medtechs should be more educated, maybe they need to make pharmacology a requirement. and the should ONLY be used in an assisted living environment. NOT HOSPITALS. NC has not yet allowed this.
I was asked what i did for a living before being a medtech. i said I'm a CNA. the reply was OH your a professional (to put it nicely) BUTT wiper! How insulting......PLEASE Don't insult my knowledge.....
However, i'd like to suggest researching into an LPN's education, before just making assumptions that they aren't skilled enough.
Look, if you are going to attempt to discredit me at least put my words into context first. I was sticking up for LPNs, I was the one saying they ARE professionals. For you to make it seem otherwise is rude and dishonest.
Although i said i was done here, and after typing this, i'm definitely not coming back to continue to watch someone rip my chosen career apart on limited knowledge of it, or to watch those that agree with med techs being labeled "idiots". This does nothing to prove the validity of someone's point.
I didn't say those that agree that CNAs should be med techs are idiots, I said those who make the rules and regs saying CNAs should be med techs are idiots, and they are IMHO.
The Qualified Medication Aide Program is well established in our facility. It has been in place for many many years (15y or more). Some Qs went on to become nurses and some felt that passing meds is challenging enough. I pass meds and do treatments and I cannot imagine adding more responsibilities to my already full plate! Maybe some day...
i guess i don't see how a pharm tech is going to know about patient conditions and assesment the way an LPN would, and at my school (and all the ones in our area that i have looked at) the Pharm techs do not take college level classes, they are technical courses at less than the 100 level and that includes their pharm course, human bio also called basic concepts of A&P, and med vocab. Their course of study is 9 months at my school and 12 at the others. I am not trying to be demeaning here, but even though a lot of LPN programs are 12-18 months the courses are of a higher level, and there 12-18 months is a rough full time schedule... I can't see a comparison of the two in our area...
Hi - It's posted, but, she or he is per diem, hence the three dollars more. It is just sad that we work this hard, just to have someone with 20 HOURS of training take the well-being of our patients into their incapable hands. MNA's don't know how to assess, why we assess. They're just told to give the meds as ordered. Holy C@#p. I'll keep ya posted.
So, no assessing before giving the med to see if it is proper to give it. ...lethargy, low bp, etc....??? or is the licensed personnel supposed to do this? i know i will never allow a med aide to give me medication....just my opinion anyways
Some do. Some don't. Let's set the rules NOW so that someone has to know what they are doing. Let's not leave it up to the idiots that assume a CNA can safely pass meds, let's find a workable system.
All of the states have different requirements for medication assistants and all of the states have different requirements for pharmacy techs. The regulation of the pharmacy techs at this point is no better than the regulation of the medication assistants at this point. Both groups are working on improving their regulatory situation. From what I have read here, that does not matter. It would not matter how much they are regulated if they don't have the knowledge necessary to pass meds. IMHO, if I am going to do the assessment, evaluate the patient, and make decisions about his or her care, then it is not going to save me time to have someone give them him or her the oral medications. The actual motor task of giving the meds is not what takes so much time. It is everything else that goes along with it. The much larger issue here is the shortage of nurses available to provide adequate care to patients. IMHO instead of looking at bandaid solutions, the focus should be on fixing the real problem.
All of the states have different requirements for medication assistants and all of the states have different requirements for pharmacy techs. The regulation of the pharmacy techs at this point is no better than the regulation of the medication assistants at this point. Both groups are working on improving their regulatory situation. From what I have read here, that does not matter. It would not matter how much they are regulated if they don't have the knowledge necessary to pass meds. IMHO, if I am going to do the assessment, evaluate the patient, and make decisions about his or her care, then it is not going to save me time to have someone give them him or her the oral medications. The actual motor task of giving the meds is not what takes so much time. It is everything else that goes along with it. The much larger issue here is the shortage of nurses available to provide adequate care to patients. IMHO instead of looking at bandaid solutions, the focus should be on fixing the real problem.
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Gloria can you repost your comment. It was full of HTML and I think I inadvertantly deleted what you wrote in trying to fix it. P_RN
I don't remember word per word what I said, but I do agree that nursing is not what it is supposed to be. If nurses weren't tied up with paperwork they would be doing what they are supposed to be doing in the first place: "healing and nurturing and passing meds" I would not have a job but at the same time going to nursing school would sound really good to me because I would actually do "real nursing", hands-on. I can hear it now. Yes you guys are doing "real nursing" but not to the extent that you would weren't you all wrapped up in endless charting and telephone calls. I realize that is important and necessary but it shouldn't be the main bulk of your job. Sorry, I am very sentimental to this subject. I have certain nostalgia for the old fashioned nursing.
All of the states have different requirements for medication assistants and all of the states have different requirements for pharmacy techs. The regulation of the pharmacy techs at this point is no better than the regulation of the medication assistants at this point. Both groups are working on improving their regulatory situation. From what I have read here, that does not matter. It would not matter how much they are regulated if they don't have the knowledge necessary to pass meds. IMHO, if I am going to do the assessment, evaluate the patient, and make decisions about his or her care, then it is not going to save me time to have someone give them him or her the oral medications. The actual motor task of giving the meds is not what takes so much time. It is everything else that goes along with it. The much larger issue here is the shortage of nurses available to provide adequate care to patients. IMHO instead of looking at bandaid solutions, the focus should be on fixing the real problem.
i don't remember word per word what i said, but i do agree that nursing is not what it is supposed to be. if nurses weren't tied up with paperwork they would be doing what they are supposed to be doing in the first place: "healing and nurturing and passing meds" i would not have a job but at the same time going to nursing school would sound really good to me because i would actually do "real nursing", hands-on. i can hear it now. yes you guys are doing "real nursing" but not to the extent that you would weren't you all wrapped up in endless charting and telephone calls. i realize that is important and necessary but it shouldn't be the main bulk of your job. sorry, i am very sentimental to this subject. i have certain nostalgia for the old fashioned nursing.
i apologize if i am attributing this remark incorrectly, but there was a remark about "nursing being a shadow" of what it used to be.
i disagree. what has gone on is that the nusing profession is evolution. initially before florenece nightingale, there were nurses, in fact she began training as a nurse in egypt, then in paris and then finished her studies in germany. the evolution was sparked by florence nightingale by her response to the appalling conditions of british hospital barracks during the crimean war. she revolutionized army medical care in her time. she founded the nightingale school and home for nurses at st. thomas's hospital in london and for the first time nurses could receive a professional education. before this nurses were untrained and nursing was considered a menial chore. because of florence nightingale nursing became a respectable and responsible career.
throughout her life and until her death, the nursing profession continued to evolve. what has happened since her death is that the nursing profession still has continued to evolve into the present. it will continue to evolve into the future. you have nps, crnas, forensics, research, legal consulting, education, etc. the point is, nurses enter the profession to utilize their skill and training for the benefit of patients in any number of settings these days.
there are many things that have not evolved in regards to the nursing profession:
for instance, the media perception and how the public views nurses. both go hand in hand in alot of ways. rarely are nurses portrayed the way we should be. we are often portrayed as subservient; being told what to do and to shut-up and do it. if you look at a tv show from the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, to today there is usually very little difference in how a nurse is portrayed. there are a few shows with exception. but take a peek at any daytime soap and nothing has changed. when i've discussed work and about having a patient load of 6 in an acute care setting with people not in nursing, they don't think it sounds all that bad......gee 6 patients, you must have alot of time on your hands at work. they really have no idea what nurses do.
the mind set of those running a lot of our practice settings has not changed. we are increasingly put into more impossible situations. often changes are implement in which we have no say, but we will be held responsible for. instead of promoting education in regards to what nurses do, they promote "customer service" or "customer satisfaction" and hold us accountable for complaints, and the "customer" now includes visitors and family. hippa and "customer satisfaction" don't exactly go together, but instead of informing visitors and patients in regards to patient confidentiality, we get reamed if they are miffed. how many times have changes been implemented with the enthusiastic euphemism "this is so much easier" and it only further impedes our ability to provide care. how many times have things been added to us that "only take a few minutes" (yeah right). our opinions and what we think are meaningless because we are supposed to be subservient: do as we're told and shut up. what we learn about being patient advocates and ensuring patient safety are the very issues that we will be threatened over. how many nurses have been threatened or imtimidated into accepting an unsafe patient assignment or load. they have more than demonstrated how highly they regard nurses.
state bons and laws in regards to nursing have also not evolved. it will not be accepted in a court of law that a nurse "was too busy," despite the fact it is a reality. what laws are there to ensure that the facility provides working conditions that facilitates the promotion of adequate staffing and safe working conditions for both nurses and their patients. what laws protect nurses when we do advocate for our patients and their safety....oh and we can be held responsible for not advocating. we are responsible for the safe and appropriate delegation of care, how much say do we have in regards to how those we delegate to are trained.
frankly there is more paper work now than ever, i would much prefer applying my skills and knowledge where it will be provide the most benefit: towards my patients. how much of our paper work is redundant and more is always being added.
the much larger issue here is the shortage of nurses available to provide adequate care to patients. imho instead of looking at bandaid solutions, the focus should be on fixing the real problem.
exactly, and placing a bandaid over a hemorraging artery is pointless. the tptb are holding their hands over their ears.
according to hospital executives, the shortage of rns has already had debilitating effects on the ability to provide quality health care. in some cases, hospital operations have been radically scaled back to cope with the shortage of nurses:50
in 2001, 69 percent of hospital executives reported that their shortage of nursing staff had resulted in higher costs to deliver care.
51 percent of hospitals reported that nurse shortages resulted in er overcrowding; 26 percent had adopted er diversion policies an average of four hours per week.
25 percent of hospitals were forced to close beds in 2001 due to insufficient nursing staff, and 23 percent restricted admissions.
19 percent of hospitals increased waiting time for surgeries, and 10 percent were forced to cancel surgeries.
17 percent of hospitals reported other effects, such as overtime work, lower morale, higher stress, and decreased quality of care.
12 percent delayed time for discharge and increased length of stay.
8 percent curtailed acquisition of new technology and 7 percent cut back on expansion plans.
about one-third (34 percent) of hospitals reported increased patient complaints or decreased patient satisfaction because of nurse shortages.
well over half (59 percent) reported that rns feel it is more difficult to provide quality care because of the workforce shortage.
only 10 percent of hospitals reported little or no effect on operations from rn staff shortages.
17% of hospitals reported other effects of ot, lower morale, higher stress, and decreased quality of care, i think the other 83% of the hospital administrators stayed in their offices and therefore did not see these effects.
only 10% of hospitals reported little or no effect on operations from rn staff shortages, hhhuuuummmmm.
oncologyangeldi
9 Posts
Although i said i was done here, and after typing this, i'm definitely not coming back to continue to watch someone rip my chosen career apart on limited knowledge of it, or to watch those that agree with med techs being labeled "idiots". This does nothing to prove the validity of someone's point.
(and also, to address another comment, when i want to know about a med, i ask for the pharmacist, not the tech.)
I thank you for your comment.I would never rip your chosen career apart or imply limited knowledge...I have the most respect for nurses and what they do and how much responsibility they have.
a lot of these judgments on CNAs is based on the bad ones. not the good ones out there that nurses are glad to have on their staff. I am one of those idiots. And all you nurses have proved your point or has given valid arguments. There are exceptions to rule. So don't put all MEDTechs in the same category as idiots. Stones can be thrown in the Licensed direction also. With many years in a hospital i have seen many many idiot nurses, but i do not put all of them in that category.When working at the hospital I as an excellent CNA have saved many nurses from making big mistakes. I'm not talking medications. A patient getting blood transfusions, it is the CNA's job to monitor vitals every 30 min. it is the CNA.s job to keep checking the patient. I knew reactions faster than the nurse who had the patient. She had just come out of the room as i was walking in and i find the patients face as red as can be as if she had just spent 2 hours sunbathing. When asking the husband how long her face has been that red he said it just started 10 min ago.I ran for that nurse knowing she was having a reaction to the blood. Although the nurse was very appreciative, i wonder how did she miss that when she was just in there. A patient was lethargic, having had this patient for the last 3 days i knew this was unusual for her. A nurse asked me to help get the patient up in the chair and bring her out to The hall so she could keep an eye on her. She said she was over medicated and was waiting for the MD to call back. I knew something else was wrong and when the nurse came to help get her up, the patient could not even say her name. I asked to take her blood sugar, the nurse got insulted with a cna asking that. she said she is not a diabetic. We tried again to get her up but she was like a rag doll. I refused to get her up and insisted on taking her blood sugar. i asked Do we have to have an order for that? her anguish at me was obvious. I went to our charge nurse and he said take it. Well what do you know it was 27...That nurse had never moved so fast. And apologized afterwords. She was in tears. why. She didn't know.....Should have in my opinion. or at least listen to us who spend more time with the patients. A patient being discharged in the afternoon calls out. says to me i need help back to the bed i am very dizzy. I took her vitals it was 82/ 45. i check her vital status from admission time. this was very low for her. Nurse is on the phone talking a personal call. i leave a note and hand it to her asking to please re-take the vitals, she nods and stays on the phone another 10 min. i come back and asked the unit secretary if she had gone in yet she said no. I find the nurse in the break room and she said YES i read the note. ok back to my business.
30 min go by, has not gone in yet. i speak to her again... her comment.....She is not my biggest priority. she is a DNR......This lady had cancer, but was in for pneumonia and being dischaarged....I was so mad i went to the charge nurse about it. All i know is the next thing hell broke loose, the MD came flying up to the floor and was totally upset. I felt horrible, the nurse was in the break room crying and called me in and said i mistook her comments. As a nurse you should know that a DNR does not mean we neglect treating. I did not mistake her comment...A code is called in one of our rooms. I am near the code cart so i run with it...patient on the floor out cold....Everyone and thier uncle is in the room. MD on the floor. ( not his patient) is in the room looking up his history in the chart. NUrse incharge of this patient can't be found. ( Travel nurse ) I help the ordely get patient on the bed he begins convulsions. as me and the charge nurse roll him over as everyone is trying to figure out what happened and is wrong , i realize this mans body is very warm. I asked the nurse to hand me the tempanic.. OOPs.. his temp is 105.4....i check the vital board and it was recorded at 3:20 pm as 97.5. it is now 4:15...How did this happen.The nurse incharge of this patient had not had the time to assess him yet and had not been seen by a nurse since the shift began...I have many more stories.
all this boils down to is nurses are so overwhelmed by their jobs they need GOOD CNA.s or other types of help. I'm sick of hearing all the bad mouthing of CNA's being lazy. stupid and idiots.There are many many excellent ones out there. I know work as a Medtech in an assisting living. And as i have said before we do not belong anywhere else. But it can work in this type of environment. I have experience. 10 years oncology 1 1/2 years RN schooling. and PASSED Pharmacology....passed all my clinicals. did my rotations. 2 semesters to go and had to Leave for family medical reasons.,...I am NOT saying i am as qualified as a nurse. But i am qualified to handle assisted living patients... Medtechs should be more educated, maybe they need to make pharmacology a requirement. and the should ONLY be used in an assisted living environment. NOT HOSPITALS. NC has not yet allowed this.
I was asked what i did for a living before being a medtech. i said I'm a CNA. the reply was OH your a professional (to put it nicely) BUTT wiper! How insulting......PLEASE Don't insult my knowledge.....
An excellent CNA and Med Tech and proud of it.