EEK! There's a woman in my room! - page 6
Since the "man in my room" thread got closed, I thought I would try a different track. I want to focus on something a little different. :idea: We know the emotional responses we got to the idea... Read More
Dec 10, '07Specialty: ortho/neuro/general surgery ; Joined: Jul '05; Posts: 778; Likes: 458Quote from 58flyerNever heard of it, thank goodness. And I (female) certainly wouldn't do that to another human being. Seeing my husband get accidentally whopped in that region by my kids jumping on him has definitely taught me that's pretty painful.My questions to you all is this. How widespread is this? How many of you learned to do that in school? Maybe learned it after school? Have any of you ever done it to your male patients? Ever hear other nurses talk about it?
I also can't imagine that any instructors I had in school would be teaching that. They taught us to maintain patient's privacy and dignity. Thanks for bringing a male perspective out.
Feb 12, '08Joined: Sep '05; Posts: 937; Likes: 136Quote from Emmanuel Goldsteinwe were taught that or a gentle squeeze at the base of penis- never taught to flick it hard- never used the info- would just finish up washing and levae em be. wasnt thier fault ( as pointed out it is a natural reaction ) and ignoring it usually takes care of it.Well, like I told you on the other thread, our psycho instructors in the diploma (RN) school I attended expected us to do that, and demonstrated the technique on a cath dummy. This was back in '79-80.
Feb 12, '08Occupation: HomeHealth Case Manager Specialty: 4.5 years Med/Surg, currently HomeHealth ; From: US ; Joined: Sep '03; Posts: 1,043; Likes: 712Quote from 58flyerI have never heard of doing that to a man. That is just unprofessional and mean. Im sorry you had to go thru that. Ive never had a man request a man nurse for care, but I always try to provide privacy and allow modesty to my patients. Even in death, I bath the body as if he were still alive....keeping parts covered as allowed. You should have reported that nurse for abuse....assault and bat.Since the "man in my room" thread got closed, I thought I would try a different track. I want to focus on something a little different.
We know the emotional responses we got to the idea of men providing intimate care of women. What I want to discuss is the issues affecting the intimate care of men by women.
If any of you have read my prior posts on this subject, you are aware of my own difficulties with opposite sex care. To recap, my own experience involved a sexually abusive situation. I am male, and when I was in the hospital as a teenager, the female nurse decided that I needed a bed bath. So that is what she proceeded to do. And much to my embarrassment, I got an erection during said bath. I wasn't aroused, it just happened. As any guy can tell you, we just don't have direct control over that function. This nurse decided she had the "cure" and proceeded to strike me in the scrotum. A lot of damage was done, physically and emotionally. One testicle healed in way that would not allow me to father children (antibodies). I'm skipping over a lot of detail in the interest of brevity, but that's what happened. :imbar
I have heard over the years many comments as to a female nurse's reaction to the male erection. A number of times I have heard reference to causing a pain stimulus to stop the erection from occurring. The stimulus usually involved striking the genitalia with an object or by using the middle finger to "thump" or "flick" either the penis or a testicle. I have heard several members of the military tell me this was done to them when they were hospitalized while in service, sometimes while recovering from combat wounds. In my situation, it could be that this nurse didn't get the desired result from just using the middle finger, so she resorted to something more forceful.
My questions to you all is this. How widespread is this? How many of you learned to do that in school? Maybe learned it after school? Have any of you ever done it to your male patients? Ever hear other nurses talk about it?
I'm not trolling and I'm not joking. It happened to me and others that I know of. It would be nice to get enough information together to come up with an article for a major nursing publication. That would bring the issue to the forefront and maybe launch an initiative to stop this brutal practice. Men treated this way could easily be your father, husband, son, brother, other family member, significant other, best friend, neighbor, or coworker.
One other thing. Given the overwhelming presence of women in nursing, male patients are often expected to just accept intimate care from women nurses without complaint. Often times there may be no other choice. But other times there are. It appears to me that female nurses (and other medical staff) have such unlimited access to male patients that they practically take it for granted. Many of the rules in place defining or limiting what male providers can do to female patients often don't apply to females in the care of men. I realize it varies among different facilities, and I have read on this forum that there are some men doing intimate procedures on female patients. However, I suspect the majority of facilities do put some kind of limit on what the men can do. Gender bias results when members of one sex are held to rules that the other sex is exempt from. The outcome of the bias is an imbalance where it is difficult for the female providers to effectively empathize with the male patients. That results the females taking an almost lackadaisical, casual, or blase' view of the modesty and privacy needs of male patients. For me it has been an uphill battle many times when receiving care just to get them to close doors or curtains, or provide draping. It's not the men I have this problem with, it's mostly women. To me treating a patient with respect and privacy specifically means covering my exposed body for comfort. To deprive me of that is to deny their obligations. I want female medical personnel to value my privacy as much as they value their own.
Having gone through infertility treatments with my wife and have stood next to her as she received care and I have noticed that privacy is never an issue. During breast exams only one side was exposed at a time. I have endured several exams where I was instructed to strip down to just underwear and wait for the doc. When the doc enters the room there is a moment where anybody outside can see past the doc. When the doc gets to the genital exam you have to lower the shorts to midthigh so you are essentially naked, and then have to bend over the table for the digital. I know men who have had this done by female docs. Absolutely cruel. At least I have only had male docs for this. I have had my share of ER visits over the years, GSW, plane crash, fire/smoke injuries, etc. Every time I have had to battle for my privacy/dignity/decency. When you are hurt that's the last thing you should have to worry about.
Any other men here experience this? Your thoughts on this ladies?
I have nothing against women. I find myself in agreement with many women here when it comes to personal care. Please don't think I'm on a tirade. If we can get some constructive dialog going maybe we can learn and do better for others.
Let's keep it nice so the mods don't close the thread. :wink2:
Feb 12, '08Joined: Sep '05; Posts: 937; Likes: 136Quote from abookerall i recall was them saying give a firm but not to hard fk flick to the tip of the penis or a firm but not to hard squeeze at the base - dont recall a specific name- perhaps it was just some nursing teacher who had these ideas and there really wasnt a specific rul for em???Might I suggest the film about male restroom etiquette to those of us who do not frequent men's rooms? It is comedy, and perhaps inappropriate, but there is some truth in all humor and the first part of it helped me think differently about male modesty. If you're under the age of 21, or do not wish to view scatalogical humor, please do not under any circumstances go to youtube and type "male restroom etiquette" into the search bar.
I had never heard of "flicking" before, but I have seen male residents inappropriately exposed. I apologized to one and he said the Navy had gotten him over his modesty a long time ago. So, not only was I bothered that the CNA had left him exposed while fetching a new top sheet, but it bothered me that he didn't care. I thought, "What's wrong with the Navy?"
When enlisting in the Army, I was treated with appropriate sensitivity. I had a very hard time providing a urine sample for the drug screen, though, with a female watching me. I don't think I could have done it at all with a male watching, and especially if I had been abused by a male. But I guess the bladder decides, eventually.
Some guys might not mind being exposed, but it is courteous for everyone to keep them covered, anyway. I'll try to do a better job of communicating that to the folks I supervise who perform personal care. I have never personally seen a female exposed the way I've seen males on my hall exposed, but maybe I need to be more vigilant for everyone involved.
Does anyone know what the flicking or thumping procedure was called? If it was taught somewhere, then it was written down somewhere. That "nursing intervention" has a name, and I'd like to help document its history.
May 2, '08Joined: Jun '07; Posts: 1,876; Likes: 2,605I'm happy with my past instructors after reading some of the stories here...many of my instructors are what you would call "old school" and I never, ever heard of hitting someone's penis in response to an erection.I graduated in 2006. If it happens, I just ignore it. Luckily, most guys are not perverts and are embarassed so I figure why draw even more attention to the matter?
On my shift, there are only 2 of us and we're both female, so we are unable to accomodate requests for a certain gender. It's never come up though.
May 2, '08Occupation: PoPoAV8tor From: US ; Joined: Mar '06; Posts: 316; Likes: 239Quote from WitchyRNI'm curious as to what you would do if you encountered a patient, such as myself, who might say, "look, there's just no way I can allow a female to do this intimate procedure." How would you accomodate him? Could you call another department or floor to see if a guy was available? Would your facility allow you to do that? Without general anesthesia or heavy sedation I just couldn't allow myself to be put in that situation.I'm happy with my past instructors after reading some of the stories here...many of my instructors are what you would call "old school" and I never, ever heard of hitting someone's penis in response to an erection.I graduated in 2006. If it happens, I just ignore it. Luckily, most guys are not perverts and are embarassed so I figure why draw even more attention to the matter?
On my shift, there are only 2 of us and we're both female, so we are unable to accomodate requests for a certain gender. It's never come up though.
May 2, '08Occupation: ER Staff Nurse Specialty: 6+ year(s) of experience in ER/EHR Trainer ; From: US ; Joined: Mar '07; Posts: 1,115; Likes: 1,673Interesting question.....I would imagine if no male was available. You'd have several options. Refuse and live with the consequences. Insist your physician did it(what if it's a female?). or Acquiesce and let the female nurse perform their order.
From my perspective, if a catheter is REQUIRED, it's been due to urinary retention, abdominal distention, or a trip to the OR. I've never had anyone refuse, but then again there are tons of male nurses in the ER if someone did.
If that was a patient's preference I'd get a male....I just want my patient happy.
May 2, '08Occupation: RN Specialty: Cardiac Telemetry, ED ; From: US ; Joined: Oct '07; Posts: 3,673; Likes: 5,547I have never heard of this practice until I came to AN. This is not being taught in my school. I would never think to do such a thing, it just seems wrong. As far as a male patient requesting a male caregiver, I think that is his right and would do my best to accommodate him.
May 2, '08Joined: Jun '07; Posts: 1,876; Likes: 2,605Quote from 58flyerWe would not be allowed to call another floor to get someone who doesn't work in the OR. There are factors such as sterile technique etc that come into play in this situation.We don't float out and other departments do not float to us.I'm curious as to what you would do if you encountered a patient, such as myself, who might say, "look, there's just no way I can allow a female to do this intimate procedure." How would you accomodate him? Could you call another department or floor to see if a guy was available? Would your facility allow you to do that? Without general anesthesia or heavy sedation I just couldn't allow myself to be put in that situation.
I could call to see if the main OR(I do Ortho exclusively) had a male to do the procedure but even then this might be very difficult because we don't have many male OR nurses and in my state an RN has to do many of these procedures-like foleys, prepping etc. There are male residents but I'm not sure you'd want one putting in your foley-I've had to stop and teach many of these guys the meaning of sterile. Truly scary sometimes.
Luckily, I've never had a male patient ask for another male and this is good because we just do not have the resources to accomodate this request on evenings or on call. In those cases, you get who you get. I do make sure to protect my patients modesty though. They call me Queen Blanket because I always make sure my patient is covered and warm!
May 2, '08Joined: Jun '07; Posts: 1,876; Likes: 2,605Quote from happycampComplaining to the insurance provider will not make more male nurses available. If you want an all male staff and the hospital cannot accomodate you, I would recommend you cancel your surgery. Even better, ask these questions before hand. This way, the hospital knows about it, and if they can't accommodate you, they may suggest you go elsewhere. Good luck trying to find a place that can, though. Something like 90% of nurses are female. You might have luck if it's an elective procedure but in the case of emergency surgery, sorry, just not going to happen where the patient dictates what staff is in the room.Request an all male staff. It is your right. If they won't accomodate
you find someone else who will! In the meantime complain to your insurance provider. It is your right to choose who participates in
providing your healthcare.
May 2, '08Occupation: H1N1 Specialty: 18 year(s) of experience in neuro, ICU/CCU, tropical medicine ; Joined: Mar '08; Posts: 503; Likes: 637Quote from WitchyRNActually, I think that only about 5% of nurses are men. So let's do the math. If 50% of our patients are male, that would mean that male nurses would get tied up putting foleys in men much more frequently than female nurses would put foleys in women. (Lord, I can't wait to get out of this racket and back to Africa where people tend not to complain about the care they receive!)Something like 90% of nurses are female.
We're arguing hypothetical situations anyway. The only time a female nurse has asked me to place a foley in one of her male patients was when she had difficulty gettting it past the prostate. More often than not, the times that I have asked a female nurse to place a foley in one of my female patients is when I couldn't find the meatus.
On a few occasions a female patient has let me know that she would prefer a female nurse place a foley. I cannot recall a male patient requesting that a male nurse place a foley in him.
These are my anecdotal observations, but from what I've read on this thread so far, I suspect that the hypothetical situations described are relatively rare.
May 3, '08Occupation: student, mom Joined: Apr '08; Posts: 6; Likes: 5I have not started my nursing program yet, so take this for what it's worth.
When I first read the OP I was shocked. I can't figure out for the life of me what a man's erection has to do with *any* care he is recieving unless it was something having to do directly with the penis and a medical need for it to be flaccid.
I had to ask my husband after I read this. He spent a great deal of his childhood in hospitals and he has had many things done during his military service and he said he had a nurse inflict pain on his penis (not scrotum) when he was around 13 years old. The thought of anyone doing that to him, or my son, brother, father makes me furious and like I said, I am not even in a program yet but you can be sure that your story touched at least 1 future RN because this will never be a practice of mine, taught or not.
I don't have anything to add on patient privacy other than it isn't unreasonable to expect to not have everything flashed to everyone who walks past your door, and to have same sex care given if the patient is that uncomfortable. Maybe those who deal on a daily basis with the nudity of others take that for granted because it's just something they are so used to? I suspect more men would prefer a man over a woman but they don't speak up because female nurses are so much more common.
May 3, '08Occupation: Behavioral Health Specialty: 20+ year(s) of experience in Gero Psych, Ortho Rebab, LTC, Psych ; From: US ; Joined: Apr '08; Posts: 1,691; Likes: 1,606I'm so sorry this happened to you. As a student now I can tell you that I have never heard or seen this before. I was a CNA for 12 yrs and never saw this. I hope you filed a suit and that nurse knows what she did to you. As a student, the very 1st semester it is drilled into our heads to 'do no harm'.
I had a patient who was always touching himself. It took me awhile to figure out why I was picking up so many towels on the floor next to his bed (Duh!). I finally had a very candid discussion about what he was doing and we both agreed that I would pick up only 1 towel on my shift and he would need to hold off with the touching until the next shift. Although it is not related, the last thing I wanted to do was to inflict pain to his groin area.