EEK! There's a woman in my room!

Nurses General Nursing

Published

Since the "man in my room" thread got closed, I thought I would try a different track. I want to focus on something a little different. :idea:

We know the emotional responses we got to the idea of men providing intimate care of women. What I want to discuss is the issues affecting the intimate care of men by women.

If any of you have read my prior posts on this subject, you are aware of my own difficulties with opposite sex care. To recap, my own experience involved a sexually abusive situation. I am male, and when I was in the hospital as a teenager, the female nurse decided that I needed a bed bath. So that is what she proceeded to do. And much to my embarrassment, I got an erection during said bath. I wasn't aroused, it just happened. As any guy can tell you, we just don't have direct control over that function. This nurse decided she had the "cure" and proceeded to strike me in the scrotum. A lot of damage was done, physically and emotionally. One testicle healed in way that would not allow me to father children (antibodies). I'm skipping over a lot of detail in the interest of brevity, but that's what happened. :imbar

I have heard over the years many comments as to a female nurse's reaction to the male erection. A number of times I have heard reference to causing a pain stimulus to stop the erection from occurring. The stimulus usually involved striking the genitalia with an object or by using the middle finger to "thump" or "flick" either the member or a testicle. I have heard several members of the military tell me this was done to them when they were hospitalized while in service, sometimes while recovering from combat wounds. In my situation, it could be that this nurse didn't get the desired result from just using the middle finger, so she resorted to something more forceful. :eek:

My questions to you all is this. How widespread is this? How many of you learned to do that in school? Maybe learned it after school? Have any of you ever done it to your male patients? Ever hear other nurses talk about it?

I'm not trolling and I'm not joking. It happened to me and others that I know of. It would be nice to get enough information together to come up with an article for a major nursing publication. That would bring the issue to the forefront and maybe launch an initiative to stop this brutal practice. Men treated this way could easily be your father, husband, son, brother, other family member, significant other, best friend, neighbor, or coworker.

One other thing. Given the overwhelming presence of women in nursing, male patients are often expected to just accept intimate care from women nurses without complaint. Often times there may be no other choice. But other times there are. It appears to me that female nurses (and other medical staff) have such unlimited access to male patients that they practically take it for granted. Many of the rules in place defining or limiting what male providers can do to female patients often don't apply to females in the care of men. I realize it varies among different facilities, and I have read on this forum that there are some men doing intimate procedures on female patients. However, I suspect the majority of facilities do put some kind of limit on what the men can do. Gender bias results when members of one sex are held to rules that the other sex is exempt from. The outcome of the bias is an imbalance where it is difficult for the female providers to effectively empathize with the male patients. That results the females taking an almost lackadaisical, casual, or blase' view of the modesty and privacy needs of male patients. For me it has been an uphill battle many times when receiving care just to get them to close doors or curtains, or provide draping. It's not the men I have this problem with, it's mostly women. To me treating a patient with respect and privacy specifically means covering my exposed body for comfort. To deprive me of that is to deny their obligations. I want female medical personnel to value my privacy as much as they value their own.

Having gone through infertility treatments with my wife and have stood next to her as she received care and I have noticed that privacy is never an issue. During breast exams only one side was exposed at a time. I have endured several exams where I was instructed to strip down to just underwear and wait for the doc. When the doc enters the room there is a moment where anybody outside can see past the doc. When the doc gets to the genital exam you have to lower the shorts to midthigh so you are essentially naked, and then have to bend over the table for the digital. I know men who have had this done by female docs. Absolutely cruel. At least I have only had male docs for this. I have had my share of ER visits over the years, GSW, plane crash, fire/smoke injuries, etc. Every time I have had to battle for my privacy/dignity/decency. When you are hurt that's the last thing you should have to worry about.

Any other men here experience this? Your thoughts on this ladies?

I have nothing against women. I find myself in agreement with many women here when it comes to personal care. Please don't think I'm on a tirade. If we can get some constructive dialog going maybe we can learn and do better for others.

Let's keep it nice so the mods don't close the thread. :wink2:

Specializes in Trauma ICU, MICU/SICU.

I didn't read this whole thread due to the large response...

I took care of a young male patient (17) with an incomplete spinal cord injury. He had sensation, but no motor. We have this idiot and insensitive PA who decided that he needed to learn how to self cath. This was before he was able to tolerate sitting in a chair, in addition it was the day before he was to go to his brother's funeral.

Anyway, he needed to be straight cath'd and everytime you pulled back the sheet he would get an erection. Because he had sensation, he could feel that he had an erection. Before I went in to straight cath him (knowing this would happen) I asked a nurse with 30 years of experience what to do. She said, if you can make him laugh it will go right down. So, I went in and lifted the sheet and he had an immediate erection. I continued to prepare the cath and just had conversation with him. I don't remember what I said, but I did get him to laugh, but his erection did start to go down. I cath'd him quickly and made no mention of his erection.

I also spoke with another PA and had his foley catheter put back in until an appropriate time (like rehab) to educate him on straight cathing.

I'm so sorry that you were abused while you were in the hospital. That is just awful. I have never heard of what you experienced and we do see Spinal cord and brain injured patients who get frequent erections.

Specializes in Emergency & Trauma/Adult ICU.

58flyer, thanks for sharing your story. It took courage.

I am appalled that you were subjected to such cruelty.

Specializes in midwifery, NICU.

58flyer..have been following this post for the past few days. Babe, I'm so sorry that your life was affected so much by the barbaric action of an old witch! Please, believe, not all females would take pleasure in striking a man on the place thats goin to cause the most pain and damage. That would be an off the register offence for any sick perpitrators! Hope she pays dearly for the damage she has caused you. Any sane female would respect male as well as female rights to privacy/bodily functions etc! All the best to ya babe, hope things turn out OK for you! Hope the Auld WITCH who flicked your bits ...well, lets just say, hope she feels physical, heart and soul pain ...a million times over!

Specializes in LTC.

The OP asked:

How widespread is this?[/Quote]

Scrotal thumping with alert and oriented patients might be a nursing intervention of the past related to the current risk of lawsuits, but appears to still exist in some facilities as a nursing assessment for level of consciousness. Delivering a painful stimulus to elicit a response is a standard part of assessment for people with neurological dysfunction. There was a thread here on allnurses.com which protested some indecent things done as an assessment for the Glascow Coma Scale, or as an intervention to determine if a person was faking. I learned “sternal rub” as the textbook response, but the assessment calls for “noxious stimuli” which leaves the door open to all sorts of abuses.

I wonder if I encountered the aftermath of an improper assessment during clinical training, while bathing a gentleman who had recently suffered a stroke. He had “edema” I was told, but his scrotum was the size of a grapefruit, and I don’t recall any swelling anywhere else. We kept that part of him elevated on a pillow, and were very careful with repositioning. I don’t know much about stroke patients, so maybe there is another explanation?

How many of you learned to do that in school?[/Quote]

Emmanuel Goldstein said her class was shown how to do it in 1979-80, and Mexarican said it was brought up jokingly in a current class. If there hadn’t been a gentleman present in Mexarican’s class, and if that gentleman had been less assertive in his desire to educate his peers, would more patients have been placed at risk?

Maybe learned it after school?[/Quote]

Unable to assess. Probably happens this way; as most nursing knowledge comes from experience. I learned about it after school here, from 58flyer, on allnurses.com.

Have any of you ever done it to your male patients?[/Quote]

I’m in long-term care, and don’t have many male residents. We had one alert and oriented male who often made inappropriate sexual and racial comments to female CNAs during brief changes and during showers. His words were simply ignored by most, who continued with their work. We had the option of asking a male CNA to complete his personal care if this resident’s statements became especially vulgar or were especially stressful to a female CNA. I never heard anyone even joke about hurting him physically, although mentioning there was a male available who could give him his shower worked like a threat, and usually calmed him down. He'd just make homophobic remarks under his breath, and settle down.

Ever hear other nurses talk about it?[/Quote]

"Noxious stimuli" used by health care professionals performing neurological assessments in the ER. Nipple twisting is a common but inappropriate neuro assessment technique used on males and females. If I could find the thread, perhaps I could document scrotal thumping.

"Lawsuit" tends to be mentioned in tandem with scrotal thumping, which makes it a thing of the past, but does the gender biased atmosphere which once advocated such behavior still exist?

Since the "man in my room" thread got closed, I thought I would try a different track. I want to focus on something a little different. :idea:

We know the emotional responses we got to the idea of men providing intimate care of women. What I want to discuss is the issues affecting the intimate care of men by women.

If any of you have read my prior posts on this subject, you are aware of my own difficulties with opposite sex care. To recap, my own experience involved a sexually abusive situation. I am male, and when I was in the hospital as a teenager, the female nurse decided that I needed a bed bath. So that is what she proceeded to do. And much to my embarrassment, I got an erection during said bath. I wasn't aroused, it just happened. As any guy can tell you, we just don't have direct control over that function. This nurse decided she had the "cure" and proceeded to strike me in the scrotum. A lot of damage was done, physically and emotionally. One testicle healed in way that would not allow me to father children (antibodies). I'm skipping over a lot of detail in the interest of brevity, but that's what happened. :imbar

I have heard over the years many comments as to a female nurse's reaction to the male erection. A number of times I have heard reference to causing a pain stimulus to stop the erection from occurring. The stimulus usually involved striking the genitalia with an object or by using the middle finger to "thump" or "flick" either the member or a testicle. I have heard several members of the military tell me this was done to them when they were hospitalized while in service, sometimes while recovering from combat wounds. In my situation, it could be that this nurse didn't get the desired result from just using the middle finger, so she resorted to something more forceful. :eek:

My questions to you all is this. How widespread is this? How many of you learned to do that in school? Maybe learned it after school? Have any of you ever done it to your male patients? Ever hear other nurses talk about it?

I'm not trolling and I'm not joking. It happened to me and others that I know of. It would be nice to get enough information together to come up with an article for a major nursing publication. That would bring the issue to the forefront and maybe launch an initiative to stop this brutal practice. Men treated this way could easily be your father, husband, son, brother, other family member, significant other, best friend, neighbor, or coworker.

One other thing. Given the overwhelming presence of women in nursing, male patients are often expected to just accept intimate care from women nurses without complaint. Often times there may be no other choice. But other times there are. It appears to me that female nurses (and other medical staff) have such unlimited access to male patients that they practically take it for granted. Many of the rules in place defining or limiting what male providers can do to female patients often don't apply to females in the care of men. I realize it varies among different facilities, and I have read on this forum that there are some men doing intimate procedures on female patients. However, I suspect the majority of facilities do put some kind of limit on what the men can do. Gender bias results when members of one sex are held to rules that the other sex is exempt from. The outcome of the bias is an imbalance where it is difficult for the female providers to effectively empathize with the male patients. That results the females taking an almost lackadaisical, casual, or blase' view of the modesty and privacy needs of male patients. For me it has been an uphill battle many times when receiving care just to get them to close doors or curtains, or provide draping. It's not the men I have this problem with, it's mostly women. To me treating a patient with respect and privacy specifically means covering my exposed body for comfort. To deprive me of that is to deny their obligations. I want female medical personnel to value my privacy as much as they value their own.

Having gone through infertility treatments with my wife and have stood next to her as she received care and I have noticed that privacy is never an issue. During breast exams only one side was exposed at a time. I have endured several exams where I was instructed to strip down to just underwear and wait for the doc. When the doc enters the room there is a moment where anybody outside can see past the doc. When the doc gets to the genital exam you have to lower the shorts to midthigh so you are essentially naked, and then have to bend over the table for the digital. I know men who have had this done by female docs. Absolutely cruel. At least I have only had male docs for this. I have had my share of ER visits over the years, GSW, plane crash, fire/smoke injuries, etc. Every time I have had to battle for my privacy/dignity/decency. When you are hurt that's the last thing you should have to worry about.

Any other men here experience this? Your thoughts on this ladies?

I have nothing against women. I find myself in agreement with many women here when it comes to personal care. Please don't think I'm on a tirade. If we can get some constructive dialog going maybe we can learn and do better for others.

Let's keep it nice so the mods don't close the thread. :wink2:

Where I come from men deserve, privacy, respect, and freedom from having pain (physical and emotional) deliberately inflicted on them for the sole reason that a perfectly normal physiciological reflexive response makes someone uncomfortable.

What this nurse done was not only cruel and unethical it technically constitutes assault. (But what victim would want to be be victimized a second time by going to court over this.)

It is a sad truth that we do treat men in this regard differently than women.

I am aware of this practice. I have never witnessed it. When ever I have heard of someone having done it it is ofter accompanied by giggles or snickering by the person talking about it.

In my ethical set it is wrong. very wrong.

Where I come from men deserve, privacy, respect, and freedom from having pain (physical and emotional) deliberately inflicted on them for the sole reason that a perfectly normal physiciological reflexive response makes someone uncomfortable.

What this nurse done was not only cruel and unethical it technically constitutes assault. (But what victim would want to be be victimized a second time by going to court over this.)

It is a sad truth that we do treat men in this regard differently than women.

I am aware of this practice. I have never witnessed it. When ever I have heard of someone having done it it is ofter accompanied by giggles or snickering by the person talking about it.

In my ethical set it is wrong. very wrong.

Thanks Agnus. Just a quick question. How often have you heard of it? Do you get the impression that it is something that happens frequently or very rarely?

Does anyone know what the flicking or thumping procedure was called? .

Ummm, assault comes to my mind :nono:

Specializes in LTC.

Actually, I think actually flicking or thumping someone there would fall under the category of "battery". If I threatened a patient I was bathing that I was going to whack them down there in a way that would make them think I meant it, THAT would be assault.

If I threaten a patient and then I actually do it to him, that is assault and battery and Mr. Strong will come haul me away in handcuffs, and I might lose my nursing license.

Happy2Be me is right; I could've been more specific. No sane nurse has ever advocated assaulting or battering or abusing a patient. In psychology, it is called "negative reinforcement". I don't know what we used to call it in nursing.

58flyer,

I cannot believe this happened to you. It was wrong and completely unethical on so many levels. This is a case of abuse, which caused a permanent, maiming injury.

I am sitting here horrified.

I have heard of the "thumping" method. Is has been mentioned to me by older nurses as something which "used" to be done, back in the dark ages.

I've been a nurse for 17 years. Instructors in my program told us that a male pt getting an erection happens occasionally, and to just cover the pt with a sheet, if possible, and ignore it.

I have experienced this, and ignored it as I was taught. No big deal.

I have experienced sexual aggression and inappropriate comments from a few male pts, in the 30s to 40s age range.

One such pt was a man who had sustained a pubic bone fracture from being stepped on by a horse. I do not think he was the type of person to behave this way normally. He was a very macho cowboy type. I think he felt so vulnerable and in such a powerless position, that this was his misguided attempt at "turning the tables" and taking back his "power."

As a consequence, he was assigned a male RN, and his behavior improved.

One such pt was a man who had sustained a pubic bone fracture from being stepped on by a horse. I do not think he was the type of person to behave this way normally. He was a very macho cowboy type. I think he felt so vulnerable and in such a powerless position, that this was his misguided attempt at "turning the tables" and taking back his "power."

As a consequence, he was assigned a male RN, and his behavior improved.

You're probably right about him turning the tables. But to vulnerable and powerless add embarrassed. He may think that embarrassing you might deflect his own embarrassment. I have heard (and read right here) about female patients getting inappropriate with male caregivers for possibly the same reason. I didn't have a lot of female patients when I was an orderly, but a few did get vulgar with me. I looked way younger than my actual age so that may have had something to do with it.

Well, I graduated in 2002 and that was NEVER taught to us. The issue was mentioned, but we were taught to step out for a minute and give the patient time to compose himself, or just keep going on with whatever we were doing and not draw attention to things. That is absolutely barbaric. I am very sorry that this happened to you.

Specializes in midwifery, NICU.

58flyer...I'm not being personal, but just wondering. Did you need infertility treatment as a direct cause of this action? How did the treatment go? just wishin you all the best babe, and still cant believe the auld witch got away with it! Sad for you that after all this time, you still have pain.

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