"The Victim" and the "Big Ole Meanie who Made Her Cry"

Nurses General Nursing

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i've always wondered why when there's a "communication difficulty," the person who says what they mean and means what they say is usually the one blamed for it. when someone bursts into tears at work, why are they always "the victim" and the person who was trying to tell them something they didn't like, couldn't understand or disagreed with was "the big old meanie who made them cry"?

we have a wonderful charge nurse -- always helpful, knowlegeable, well-organized. she's a great resource and i really enjoy working with her. her only flaw, if it can be called a flaw, is that she has a very direct style of communication. i overheard a series of exchanges where she was trying to convince a relatively new nurse that she needed to get up to speed with her assessments and nursing care and keep her documentation up to date. i was working next to this nurse, and picking up a lot of her slack. she wasn't keeping up -- and we weren't busy. hortense (not her name, but one you'll likely remember!) kept asking her if she needed help and what we could do to help her get her patient ready to transfer at 1100. myrtle (also not her name) kept saying she was doing fine, everything was ok, etc. yet 1100 came, and her patient still needed a bath, lines pulled, dressings changed and her charting done. myrtle had spent her morning rushing about doing stuff, but not really getting anything done. hortense and i stepped up and got the patient ready and transferred by 1200, the room cleaned and set up by 1245 because we had a new patient coming out of the or at 1300. myrtle continued to ineffectually flit around, but didn't get anything done.

finally, when myrtle complained about taking the new admission because she hadn't had lunch yet, hortense calmly but clearly explained to her that had she been able to transfer her patient by the allotted time, she'd have had an hour for lunch plus another half hour to relieve me for lunch and as it was none of the three of us had had lunch. she wasn't mean about it, just clear and factual. myrtle burst into tears and ran to the manager, complaining that hortense was being "mean to her." hortense and i both explained the situation to the manager, but the upshot is that hortense is being counseled about her "communication skills". i think myrtle ought to be going to the communications class with her. if hortense was too direct, myrtle obviously wasn't direct enough because she clearly wasn't "getting" what hortense and i had been trying to tell her all morning.

so when one staff member bursts into tears at work, why is the fault always seen to be the person who "made them cry." why don't we blame the person who bursts into tears at work? if they were capable of communicating directly and factually and understanding direct communication, they might not need to be talked to several times before the point gets across and perhaps emotions wouldn't be so high for everyone.

So when one staff member bursts into tears at work, why is the fault always seen to be the person who "made them cry." Why don't we blame the person who bursts into tears at work? If they were capable of communicating directly and factually and understanding direct communication, they might not need to be talked to several times before the point gets across and perhaps emotions wouldn't be so high for everyone.

This is also a problem sometimes with dealing with folks from a wide ethnic background. I like it when people are direct, not playing the passive-aggressive games that I see all too often in nursing.

Specializes in Oncology/Haemetology/HIV.
finally, when myrtle complained about taking the new admission because she hadn't had lunch yet, hortense calmly but clearly explained to her that had she been able to transfer her patient by the allotted time, she'd have had an hour for lunch plus another half hour to relieve me for lunch and as it was none of the three of us had had lunch.

i think this is an example of being aggressive. there are other ways of getting your point across by being assertive yet being sensitive to another person's feelings. i think alot of nurses think they are just too agressive.

and i think that a lot of nurses are a tad too "sensitive", after been treated with kid gloves for too long.

i am seeing alot of examples of people being given a pass all of their lives and not been taught that actions have consequences.

when you mess up in a team situation, it affects other people and their work. letting someone know that their actions have consequences is not "aggressive", it is appropriate. how are the other team members (that are missing their lunch, also) going to feel if myrtle continues in her actions, shift after shift? they will become quickly alienated from myrtle, and then there willbe some very real "eating of the young".

myrtle needs to recognize to ask for help (other nurses are not psychic, and they all are focused on their own issues) and that poor planning harms others. yes, perhaps hortense could have done that privately. but i doubt if myrtle was "private" with her bad feelings.

Who was really being the passive-aggressive here? Did Hortense wait until well past 11 a.m. to reveal the consequence of Myrtle's actions and then say she really meant to say ("We're going without lunch because you're incompetent, Myrtle"). If so, that doesn't seem like direct communication.

Again, not defending Myrtle. She should not have gone crying to anyone before trying to talk privately with Hortense first. But if Hortense is the more experienced nurse, I wonder why she didn't gently tell Myrtle up front that yes, she needed help, and yes, she was going to get it because if she didn't, they'd miss lunch. Then perhaps let Myrtle delegate some of the work to her fellow nurses so that she retains some control over the situation.

I know an earlier poster said that she doesn't have time to "monkey around" in many situations, and I'm sure that's true. But think about how much extra time Hortense now has to waste on this problem.

And I think that a lot of nurses are a tad too "sensitive", after been treated with kid gloves for too long.

I am seeing alot of examples of people being given a pass all of their lives and not been taught that actions have consequences.

Caroladybelle, you and I are about the same age. I know when I first started working 25 years ago, my supervisors and many of my co-workers were older men, many of whom had served in World War II. No one burst into tears on the job. They'd sure be looked at as an oddity if they did.

That brings me to my point: I've recently read about Gen Xers and how they have to be "managed differently" than older workers because of their sensitivities. Many of them were raised by Baby Boomer parents who constantly told them they were perfect. I've read articles about college administrators who are sick of dealing with "helicopter parents" constantly hovering over their kids. The idea behind these articles is that the current generation of newbies is thin-skinned and doesn't believe in the idea of paying your dues.

I don't know if Myrtle is a Gen Xer, and I don't believe that all Gen Xers are crybaby ego maniacs. But my own experience with managing younger folks has been that they can be hypersensitive. None of this is to excuse Hortense, though -- it's just something I've thought a lot about while reading this very interesting thread.

Specializes in ICU, Research, Corrections.

we have a wonderful charge nurse -- always helpful, knowlegeable, well-organized. she's a great resource and i really enjoy working with her. her only flaw, if it can be called a flaw, is that she has a very direct style of communication. i overheard a series of exchanges where she was trying to convince a relatively new nurse that she needed to get up to speed with her assessments and nursing care and keep her documentation up to date. i was working next to this nurse, and picking up a lot of her slack. she wasn't keeping up -- and we weren't busy. hortense (not her name, but one you'll likely remember!) kept asking her if she needed help and what we could do to help her get her patient ready to transfer at 1100. myrtle (also not her name) kept saying she was doing fine, everything was ok, etc. yet 1100 came, and her patient still needed a bath, lines pulled, dressings changed and her charting done. myrtle had spent her morning rushing about doing stuff, but not really getting anything done. hortense and i stepped up and got the patient ready and transferred by 1200, the room cleaned and set up by 1245 because we had a new patient coming out of the or at 1300. myrtle continued to ineffectually flit around, but didn't get anything done.

finally, when myrtle complained about taking the new admission because she hadn't had lunch yet, hortense calmly but clearly explained to her that had she been able to transfer her patient by the allotted time, she'd have had an hour for lunch plus another half hour to relieve me for lunch and as it was none of the three of us had had lunch. she wasn't mean about it, just clear and factual. myrtle burst into tears and ran to the manager, complaining that hortense was being "mean to her." hortense and i both explained the situation to the manager, but the upshot is that hortense is being counseled about her "communication skills". i think myrtle ought to be going to the communications class with her. if hortense was too direct, myrtle obviously wasn't direct enough because she clearly wasn't "getting" what hortense and i had been trying to tell her all morning.

is myrtle a new grad that started in the icu? she sounds as if she could be..........did she get a proper orientation? i was a new grad in the icu and spent the first few months flitting around and not getting anything done because i had problems with priortizing.

unlike myrtle, i preferred a direct style of communication and constructive criticism. i not only liked it; i appreciated it. it helped me become a better nurse.

if myrtle can't stand the heat of the icu; she should get out of the fire. it is intensive care. she honestly needs to know when she can spend time lollygagging and when she can't. maybe myrtle isn't cut out to be in icu. you have to have a somewhat aggressive personality to work in the icu, imho.

the only time you should spend crying in the icu is with a pt's family.

my 2 cents worth

Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.

The idea behind these articles is that the current generation of newbies is thin-skinned and doesn't believe in the idea of paying your dues.

I'm 47 and I have seen some situations that do not bother me in the slightest, and makes my 20 something year old charge nurse to cry and I'm left scracthing my head "what's her problem, she's totally over reacting". She just quit this past week and I'm taking over her job, so I'll have some first hand knowledge of her frustrationsw.

But I'm not sure what you mean by "paying your dues". The idea that new grads have dues to pay is not one I'm familiar with. Enlighten me. Thanks.

Specializes in Oncology/Haemetology/HIV.
I've read articles about college administrators who are sick of dealing with "helicopter parents" constantly hovering over their kids. The idea behind these articles is that the current generation of newbies is thin-skinned and doesn't believe in the idea of paying your dues.

I don't know if Myrtle is a Gen Xer, and I don't believe that all Gen Xers are crybaby ego maniacs. But my own experience with managing younger folks has been that they can be hypersensitive. None of this is to excuse Hortense, though -- it's just something I've thought a lot about while reading this very interesting thread.

While I would not classify GenXers as hypersensitive, I do note alot of people my age as well as older and younger that cannot take even tactful constructive discussion of their performance.

But in response to something else that you said, I was at a job fair for healthcare professionals the other day. The number of "helicopter" parents there just blew my mind. It would have been one thing if they just stood back and observed, but for goodness sakes, these people were almost interviewing the recruiters.

All I can think, is what kind of employees will these individuals be?

[color=darkslategray]slightly off topic here, but spooky that i was just talking to someone about this, before i read it on here.

that brings me to my point: i've recently read about gen xers and how they have to be "managed differently" than older workers because of their sensitivities. many of them were raised by baby boomer parents who constantly told them they were perfect. i've read articles about college administrators who are sick of dealing with "helicopter parents" constantly hovering over their kids. the idea behind these articles is that the current generation of newbies is thin-skinned and doesn't believe in the idea of paying your dues

.

i‘ve come across this so often recently, including in my own family.

my grown up niece has just finished uni and is looking for a job in a very completive area, has never worked, not even part time her parents supported her fully. she keeps whinging about how ‘it’s not fair’ that her class mates who worked through all their summer breaks are finding it easier to get jobs. as i said it’s a very competitive area she wants to go in to, some of her peers worked for these firms for free in the summer, got their faces known, made it known that they were prepared to do the hours, do the hard work and now they’re been rewarded. she can’t see it; all we hear is how unfair it all is.

and i’m mean ‘cause i suggested that as her parents are happy to continue supporting her, why not do some volunteer work now and get out there, and then when an opening does come up she’ll be there.

her come back was why should she have to work for nothing that’s not fairrrrr

thing is she not going to get any job at this rate.

helping at my nephews 7th birthday party, nice day so we get them out to play in the garden. my nephew has this big outdoor snakes and ladders game which they decide they want to play, all great until one boy hits a snake and refuses to go back however many squares it was.

i go over and start to explain the rules of the game to him, he interrupts me saying ‘i know what the rules are but my mummy says i don’t have to follow them, it’s not fair to make me go back.’

in other words another person who thinks the rules apply to everyone but him, just what we need.

i think parents like this are guilty of a form of abuse, kids brought up to think that the world revolves around them are going to end up very dissatisfied if they’re lucky, if they’re unlucky they’ll whine to the wrong person and get hurt.

you see it all the time on the talent type shows, you know pop idol, people who audition, are awful, but are truly shocked when they are not instantly signed up, because mummy and daddy have always said how perfect they are, and wonderful and what do you silly experts know…………………

anyway back to the topic………

I'm not sure what you mean by "paying your dues". The idea that new grads have dues to pay is not one I'm familiar with. Enlighten me. Thanks.

A lot has been written about the current crop of twentysomethings being unwilling to put their time in at entry-level jobs in general. They don't believe they should have to earn the privilege of a weekday shift, for example, or have so many years of experience before being promoted to a supervisory experience. They want meaningful work right off the bat; and to their credit, a lot of them are willing to negotiate their way around work they don't want to do. When they can't, they often leave. Unemployment has no stigma. (For what it's worth, Wikipedia has an interesting entry on Gen Xers.)

None of that applies to Myrtle, nor necessarily to new professionals in any aspect of health care. And we've all worked with twentysomethings who are fantastic and can teach the rest of us a thing or two.

As for whether people have to pay dues, it's been my experience that people who've got years of experience -- some, not all -- believe that newbies earn their privileges.

Specializes in cardiology-now CTICU.

wow ruby, this topic hits close to home for me. as a new member of an ICU FULL of "direct communicators" , i have seen the other side of the fence. i think that the offer of help and reassurance to myrtle that accepting help will not doom her to evil looks and gossip the rest of the shift/week/month makes the difference. i work with many nurses who have zero problem publicly and despairingly critiquing another nurse's performance with NO offer of help. and yeah, in that situation it feels like being dumped on. being told that you're slow and you're dragging your co-workers down with you is disheartening. not in defence of running to mom- i mean manager-lol or bursting into tears. i am just saying that sometimes an offer of help makes the difference.

i agree that it takes two to communicate. perhaps on hortence's end she could make sure myrtle knows that accepting help is not the same as failure and won't bring a rain of "you can't get your work done on your own" attitude down on her. sometimes as the new guy you get to feeling that you can't do anything right and your coworkers will never be happy with you.

i don't think that the tears are the problem here, it just sounds like miscommunication on both sides. we're all human with human emotions. don't be manipulated by tears, but try not to judge the person crying too harshly either. you don't have all the info about what is going on in her life.

I personally prefer to deal with people who are direct. It makes things a lot easier.

I don't like dealing with passive-aggresive people who expect others to be able to read minds, and get mad that people don't know what they want, when they don't say it directly, and they "expect a person to know without being told". :trout:

I also don't like dealing with someone who can't take any constructive criticism, who act like a 5 year old ("what about what he/she did!") to draw attention away from their behavior, or "have their feelings hurt" when someone tries to call them on their behavior.

Sorry guys, I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I had a family member like this, and it drove me up the walls.

Originally posted by Pumpkin1692

When I am a new employee, I like to show that I am able to handle my own. When people offer help it is very nice, and I often don't take it. I don't take it unless someone tells me I need it. Do you need help is kind of a general question. It doesn't inform the person that they are behind. It isn't straight foward. This is when the clear communication was needed.

Recognizing when you need help is part of becoming a professional, as knowing when to take help when it is offered. You're the one that should know that you need help not your coworkers, nor should it be their responsibility to tell you. Your coworkers are not mind readers nor will they necessarily be fully aware what is actually needed when they offer assistance. I think sometimes people confuse needing help as a weakness, when the truth is knowing when to seek help/assistance/advice is a strength. When help is offered and you need it, take it, someone may not be able to help you later.

Now it is lunch time and she hasn't eaten. She wants to know when lunch is, and she is basically told well b/c of you being slow none of us can eat. Which is true and straight foward, like you said, but she might have been unaware of just how far behind she was and didn't understand what the consequences of her actions were. Not only did the charge nurse punish her by not letting her eat lunch, but she blamed her for her coworkers missing lunch also. No one wants that, especially if you are new.

She had been told repeated that she needed to get up to speed with her assessments, nursing care, and documentation. She had also been told that the patient needed to be ready to be transferred by 11:00. She was asked what did she need help with to get this patient ready by that time, she insisted she was fine and everything was OK. She should have known at some point before 11:00 that she was behind. At 11:00 her coworkers got the patient ready for transfer because she hadn't. She was complaining about receiving a new admission BECAUSE SHE hadn't had lunch yet, she didn't express concern over anyone else having lunch, I'm sure she would know she would have relieve another in order for them to have lunch. What Hortense was pointing out to her was the fact that had the patient been ready for transfer when he/she was supposed to be, she could have had lunch AND relieved another so that they could have had their lunch. Actually it was a great opportunity to point out how her time management impacts not only herself. Yes it was said in front of a coworker, I don't think it was entirely inappropriate, it can sometimes be in one's best interest to have a witness present. I don't think this was a situation of the charge nurse "punishing" her by denying her lunch, if that was the case then she would have been the only one not to have lunch.

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