"Diploma Nurse preferable"

Snowshooz · Jan 11, 2007

Speaking as a Diploma graduate from the 70's

Our program prepared us for literally ANYTHING! We had 3 month rotations , clinical everyday in OR, OB, Med Surg/ICU (6mos med surg) Psych/Community etc etc etc...

It was an awesome education. When I graduated I felt very confident going into any situation.

I ended up eventually going into the OR and never looked back..Its been wonderful! I truly felt bad and still too feel bad for some BSN prepared nurses at times..they lack confidence, skills, and at times critical thinking skills. It would truly would be beneficial to increase clinical time during their programs.

True, they have that BSN to show, but I have yet to see one outshine a Diploma grad in any area ( speaking 30 years experience here)...I don't mean to start a FLAME here but I think the programs could better prepare them...

fbmom · Jan 12, 2007

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I agree with 'Snowshooz'. Being a diploma grad from the 70's I could not top my nursing education. Upon graduation, we were fairly confident in all nursing areas.

My clinical experience was unbelievable and prepared me to enter the big wide world as a GN. My first job didn't have an 8-12 WEEK orientation, it wasn't needed back in the day,

Worked with BSN's who have never seen a delivery or surgery and can quote you the textbook treatments, but I got to do these treatments as a student!!!

Nursing schools today need to bring back MORE clinicals, so the newbies will lose that 'deer in headlights' look and be more confident in the 'actual' practice of nursing

LisaJ_RN · Jan 12, 2007

SORRY

was not yelling...

anyway I will be proud to be an RN

burn out · Jan 12, 2007

my state hasn't had a diploma program for over 15 years, they must be looking for a much older nurse if they are where I live.

Rnandsoccermom · Jan 12, 2007

Diploma grad in 1985 from a teaching hospital-based program.

We went to school for 3 calander years, no summers off. We had to go to the floors the night before clinicals and research our patients thoroughly, write the care plan and be prepared to present to the group the next day at pre-conference. Then you had to go out and BE the RN for your patients-orders and all (they made us talk to and call MD's, the instuctors cosigned). The floor RN basically got the day off for the patients we had. Our instructors also went to the floor RN's and found procedures for us to do, our patient or not. I had done every basic nursing procedure before I graduated (foleys, NG tubes etc...). Critical thinking was taught and expected or you didn't make it. I started in a class of 76 and 38 actually graduated.

I couldn't have gotten a better education. I am currently a supervisor at a hospital, I never applied for the position. I was told by my DON that they wanted to train me for that position.

I think it is attractive to employers to find someone that is used to being thrown into any situation and be able to handle it. We were taught that from the start.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Jan 12, 2007

New grads shouldn't be "thrown into any situation" and expect to function. From what I've seen ADNs and BSNs do o.k. after graduation and make fine nurses. I don't think the job of nursing school is to graduate a functioning nurse ready to hit the floor.

Kelly_the_Great · Jan 12, 2007

Okay, yeah, the Diploma programs get way more clinical experience than anybody else. Clinicals/"hands on" are a great thing. Personally, I don't think there's any better way to learn than actually "doing."

But it's my understanding that their clinicals are not just limited to bedside/patient care, they also get a lot of management clinical experience as well. Just like how the Bachelor's program has a clinical management course, they do too.

The only thing they don't get a lot of is the theory (again, this is just my understanding - I could very well be wrong).

So, with this in mind, tons of patient care clinical experience (+) management training, why would anybody be surprised that they'd be preferred?

wildmountainchild · Jan 12, 2007

Nursing school like a lot of things is self directed. If you aren't getting much hands on in clinicals.....well, go get your hands dirty! Always be asking if you can help, or if you can try something new. Never just sit around and wait! There is almost certainly a bed pan to be changed somewhere. The RN will appreciate your help and remember you for that next NG tube insertion.

edcampbe · Jan 12, 2007

snowshooz,

i hear over and over again on this board that diploma nurses or adns may have more clinical experience than the run-of-the-mill bsn nurse. in response to your comment of feeling bad for some bsns i would like to propose a counter argument. while it may be true that some bsns do not receive the same number of clinical hours than diploma or adn nurses while in nursing school -- what about the invaluable education bsns receive in research, evidence-based practice, and leadership?

imagine a bsn who has hundreds of hours fewer clinical experiences compared to a diploma or adn nurse after graduation. how long will it take the bsn to reach a comparable level of competence in the workplace? six months, maybe even one year? however, once both nurses are on par with their nursing skills and judgment, who will be the one most likely to better nursing practice by utilizing research which can evoke positive change?

SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN · Jan 12, 2007

however, once both nurses are on par with their nursing skills and judgment, who will be the one most likely to better nursing practice by utilizing research which can evoke positive change?

don't assume that everyone lacking a bsn lacks higher education and degrees, or the ability to conduct valid research.

oy.

the point of the advertisement under discussion is that the employer clearly doesn't want to spend months bringing the new grad up to being able to practice safely. research, schmesearch. the don wants someone who can insert a catheter without also inserting a uti.

suzy253, RN · Jan 12, 2007

-- what about the invaluable education bsns receive in research, evidence-based practice, and leadership?
imagine a bsn who has hundreds of hours fewer clinical experiences compared to a diploma or adn nurse after graduation. how long will it take the bsn to reach a comparable level of competence in the workplace? six months, maybe even one year? however, once both nurses are on par with their nursing skills and judgment, who will be the one most likely to better nursing practice by utilizing research which can evoke positive change?

i'm a recent diploma grad (may 06)--who said we don't get education in research, evidence based practice and leadership...because we do. this was a three year program.....we got everything!

marilynmom, LPN, NP · Jan 12, 2007

OMG why does every freakin thing have to turn into a BSN vs ADN debate about who gets more clinical hours?!

As far as I know the state BON sets the clinical hours required for the nursing programs. I know when I go to clinical I always look at the other schools out of curiosity (they post their times in the report rooms) and we are all there the same amount of times per week. I've never once noticed a difference between the ADN or BSN students during clinicals...but I have noticed individual people in certain programs...those with confidence.

I also don't think that the amount of clinical hours matters as much as what you do with those clinical hours. I've seen some students just sitting on their asses for 12 hours a day not learning much at all. I have not had this experience thankfully, but I know some hospitals plain suck and dislike students being there. What are you doing with your summers---working a full time externship or taking a vacation? Do you work as an aid or a tech? Does your program require nursing volunteer time (mine required 60 hours)? All that adds up and means something.

My instructor for OB was just telling me about her last group of students who she had for two 12 hour shifts a week--students were not to be found at times, were leaving hours early and not telling anyone, were always taking breaks, surfing the net, scared to do things, not very confident, etc. Pretty crappy bunch overall--yet that school has a good NCLEX rate! haha I'm not even going to mention if this was an ADN or BSN group because why does it matter?