"Diploma Nurse preferable"

marilynmom, LPN, NP · Jan 12, 2007

nevermind.

marilynmom, LPN, NP · Jan 12, 2007

I've seen this is 2 adds in the newspaper, looking for nurses in management positions. "Diploma nurse preferabel". Any one else seen this?

Wow--that is something you don't see very often huh? No, I haven't seen anything like that though, everything I see says BSN preferred when it comes to management positions (or more likely MSN preferred).

I do find it hard to believe honestly though. Especially in this day and age.

Rnandsoccermom · Jan 12, 2007

New grads shouldn't be "thrown into any situation" and expect to function. From what I've seen ADNs and BSNs do o.k. after graduation and make fine nurses. I don't think the job of nursing school is to graduate a functioning nurse ready to hit the floor.

I'm not so sure about that.

I worked on a respiratory/vent unit for my first six years out of school. In my first year, my direct admit was wheeled up to the floor by a transporter at 5pm. The patient was slumped over and cyanotic. I looked at him, screamed for the resident at the desk, and yelled for the unit clerk to call a code. We threw him in the bed and intubated him. My coworkers all helped me, and I learned alot that day. He survived and went home. I had many crazy, stressful, heart-pounding experiences those early years, there was no way around it.

If that isn't being thrown into situations and being expected to function, I don't know what is. When you work in a big, busy, place you have to expect that, it doesn't matter what your education is. The point is, it is better to prepare new nurses for this, then have them leave the field all together.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Jan 12, 2007

I'm not so sure about that.
I worked on a respiratory/vent unit for my first six years out of school. In my first year, my direct admit was wheeled up to the floor by a transporter at 5pm. The patient was slumped over and cyanotic. I looked at him, screamed for the resident at the desk, and yelled for the unit clerk to call a code. We threw him in the bed and intubated him. My coworkers all helped me, and I learned alot that day. He survived and went home. I had many crazy, stressful, heart-pounding experiences those early years, there was no way around it.
If that isn't being thrown into situations and being expected to function, I don't know what is. When you work in a big, busy, place you have to expect that, it doesn't matter what your education is. The point is, it is better to prepare new nurses for this, then have them leave the field all together.

You weren't thrown into this situation and expected to function. Your post says "My cowoerkers all helped me......." "We...........", that you called for help. You handled the situation perfectly, as any new grad on their first day or any nurse with 30 years of experience..........you called a code and asked for help.

Every one of us is going to come across sitautions such as this. Also you illustrate that this experience occurred on the job. This is where we learn to be nurses moreso than in clinical.

I'm not disrespecting anyone's clinical hours. I'm saying from what I've seen ADN and BSN grads function pretty well during their orientation as new grads. Some better than others, and yes Diploma nurses probably are ready in a few more areas. I kind of felt bad for the student I just precepted because by some freak of nature we didn't get to start one IV together, not one. I pray some arrogant nurse who gets her on the first job says "what do you mean you've never started and IV...what did they teach you in nurses school? People just don't get enough clinical hours these days..........." Rather, I hope someone takes the time to watch her start her IV, and other procedures that she learned in theory but didn't get to do in practice, rather than expect her to come out of school knowing everything and ready to hit the floor without having to be taught, or observed.

nrsang97, BSN, RN · Jan 12, 2007

I went to an ADN program. I think I was prepared. We were encouraged to talk with Dr's face to face. Our instructors sought out opprotunities for us to learn new skills. I have had new grads while I am precepting tell me that they never gave and IM injection. I found them the opprotunity to give one. I NEVER got to insert a NGT in clinical because I wasn't given the opprotunity but when the time came while I was in orinetation the nurse that taught me was patient with me and we got it in on the first try. We weren't allowed to start IV's as student nurses. I don't know about other states but in MI we wern't allowed to start IV's or draw blood. We had 2 8 hour days each week and 2 days of classes. Truthfully I don't think a BSN is better prepared for floor nursing than a ADN. BSN does get more managemnet and community health training.

Here in MI Henry Ford Hospital has a accellerated nursing program in partnership with Henry Ford Community College. The students end up with a ADN degree in 16 months. Program goes all year round with no breaks.

I also think that having positions like a CNA or extern during nursing school are a huge advantage. I know the 6 months as a extern and 3 months as a nurse assistant helped me.

Bottom line clinicals are what YOU make of them. You have to be willing to soak up everything you can.

psalm_55 · Jan 13, 2007

Bottom line clinicals are what YOU make of them. You have to be willing to soak up everything you can.

i agree.

i graduated from an ADN program (during a time when all of my instructors had come out of a Diploma program) -- so it was pretty much a 'diploma program culture'. Went on to an EXCELLENT BSN program (where i had to take all but the fundamentals course) -- and then went on for MSN -- and now Teach in a Diploma program.

i am biased toward Diploma programs though. i think there are several advantages to them. their relationship with the hospital means fewer constraints in med admin and participating / performing various procedures. the hospital has a vested interest in producing graduates who can function with relative independence in a reasonable period of time.

also, lots of clinical hours = lots of hands on experiences. i always say 'i can read a book on how to swim -- but that doesn't mean i can swim'.

also, i can know the recipe, but that doesn't make me a cook.

how does anyone get good / or better at anything? practice. practice. practice.

but, no matter which program a person attends, it comes down to what YOU make it.

jenrninmi, MSN, RN · Jan 13, 2007

I went to an ADN program. I think I was prepared. We were encouraged to talk with Dr's face to face. Our instructors sought out opprotunities for us to learn new skills. I have had new grads while I am precepting tell me that they never gave and IM injection. I found them the opprotunity to give one. I NEVER got to insert a NGT in clinical because I wasn't given the opprotunity but when the time came while I was in orinetation the nurse that taught me was patient with me and we got it in on the first try. We weren't allowed to start IV's as student nurses. I don't know about other states but in MI we wern't allowed to start IV's or draw blood. We had 2 8 hour days each week and 2 days of classes. Truthfully I don't think a BSN is better prepared for floor nursing than a ADN. BSN does get more managemnet and community health training.
Here in MI Henry Ford Hospital has a accellerated nursing program in partnership with Henry Ford Community College. The students end up with a ADN degree in 16 months. Program goes all year round with no breaks.
I also think that having positions like a CNA or extern during nursing school are a huge advantage. I know the 6 months as a extern and 3 months as a nurse assistant helped me.
Bottom line clinicals are what YOU make of them. You have to be willing to soak up everything you can.

I don't know when you graduated, but in my nursing college we were taught how to start iv's and were certainly able to start them as students and I live in MI as well. My program went all year round with no breaks as well.