frustrated with "online" NP schools

Nursing Students NP Students

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I just want to know if anyone out there agrees that online nursing schools, especially for an MSN/NP program discredits our profession? Yes, online makes it easier for people to access and attend, but where is the countless amt. of didactic and clinical hrs one has to go through to earn entitlement in diagnosing, prescribing and teaching. The NP program I am attending now is a physical institution attached to one of the biggest named hospitals in the nation. All I know is that it's kicking my butt, but I don't think I would get the same experience as if it were online. No, I am not jealous of people who earned their degrees via an easier route because I wish more physical schools would open for NP education with an extensive curriculum. With that, I understand why patients would decline care from some NPs. I want the nursing profession to grow a great deal ( because it definitely deserves more appreciation and deference than its' given), but with the amt of online schools being thrown out there it discredits it. Online programs tell me, anyone with a computer can go through it. What happened to an interview process, GRE requirements??? I think nursing should take a step back and raise their standards so we aren't thought of as just people who "open" rooms for the docs or pick up linen for the ill. I believe the nursing profession just doesn't have high enough standards.

I am not trying to start controversy/debacle but I want to hear opinions.

I like the ability to take my classes at starbucks (or where ever). Its a good point that you cant hide at the back of the class, since internet courses tend to have minimums for logging on and participation. As far as the GRE goes, i never had to take it because my undergrad gpa was high enough. It would make more sense to have an entrance exam that is better suited to nursing skills. Perhaps an exams that measures mastery of your BSN skills since the MSN is supposed to be building on that.

I have to call blanket statement on this comment since I've had the same sitting in classrooms. Consider this distance education for you! :lol2:

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Have to agree with the comment about sitting in back of the class and hiding. Just finished my first online course. We were required to contribute to weekly discussions on topics furnished by the instructor. She let you know soon enough if you weren't meeting her expectations as to quantity, quality, or timeliness. Put a lot of time and effort into that class because of the discussions online. In a regular class I probably would have been quiet for most of the class. I mean, totally quiet. No participation at all or the least amount possible.

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have to agree with the comment about sitting in back of the class and hiding. just finished my first online course. we were required to contribute to weekly discussions on topics furnished by the instructor. she let you know soon enough if you weren't meeting her expectations as to quantity, quality, or timeliness. put a lot of time and effort into that class because of the discussions online. in a regular class i probably would have been quiet for most of the class. i mean, totally quiet. no participation at all or the least amount possible.

online and sitting in class expectations are dependent on the course instructor. both can have great learning opportunities and both very poor. my preference is in class, the ability to assess tone and body movements can tell more about a conversation. even with various online methodologies, nothing out there is at the same level of interaction as in person. i know there are some great online classes, just as there are some great in the classroom. some content, especially application content is better in person, especially for the visual learners

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online and sitting in class expectations are dependent on the course instructor. both can have great learning opportunities and both very poor. my preference is in class, the ability to assess tone and body movements can tell more about a conversation. even with various online methodologies, nothing out there is at the same level of interaction as in person. i know there are some great online classes, just as there are some great in the classroom. some content, especially application content is better in person, especially for the visual learners

i don't think course instructors have the freedom you think they do. at least i never did. there's always the powers-to-be that tell you what you must do...for the most part.

i'm a visual learner also so i agree with you somewhat. but consider also that face-to-face interaction can also "color" that interaction and not always in a positive manner.

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I don't think course instructors have the freedom you think they do. At least I never did. There's always the powers-to-be that tell you what you must do...for the most part.

I'm a visual learner also so I agree with you somewhat. But consider also that face-to-face interaction can also "color" that interaction and not always in a positive manner.

why would freedom differ between online and inclass? "color" is good, I like to assess if positive or negative, consider the interaction highly valuable. Much like seeing a patient, I feel more effective in the room vs doing an online evaluation.

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As usual :), I agree completely with llg. Irrespective of the modality (B&M or online), there are good and bad programs out there, and it is the responsibility of the prospective student (IMHO) to do the necessary research to make sure you're getting into a good program. How often do we see threads started on this site about "what is the quickest/easiest/cheapest NP program (or any other graduate level/advanced practice option)?" ALL THE TIME. Well, there are plenty of schools out there willing to meet those individuals' needs ... :rolleyes:

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why would freedom differ between online and inclass? "color" is good, I like to assess if positive or negative, consider the interaction highly valuable. Much like seeing a patient, I feel more effective in the room vs doing an online evaluation.

Your comment, "Online and sitting in class expectations are dependent on the course instructor" implies to me that instructors have all the leeway or freedom they want in designing a course, when they actually don't. Sure face to face is considered optimal, but not always. I've taught Zen Shiatsu students to read a person by watching them walk around. But as a person trained to "see" a person in ways you have yet to imagine, I can tell you that you must consider all angles. There is now research which shows that some psychotherapy done via computer is more effective than face-to-face. That is a kick in the guts to those who consider that the gold standard in therapy is that therapy must be face-to-face. So what I'm basically saying is consider everything and all options.

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Specializes in PNP, CDE, Integrative Pain Management.

I went to a (mostly) online NP program. It required a GRE and a master's thesis before a panel of tenured faculty. The program was through a state university, and the professors were from the university's school of nursing, all PhD nurses. I don't understand why the OP assumes that online equates to simulated patients and "easy" courses. OF COURSE we learned pelvic exams/PAPs on real humans, the very same "professional patients" the med students learn with. OF COURSE we must complete as many clinical hours doing actual patient care with qualified preceptors that the B&M institutions require. An ENORMOUS benefit of online NP schools is that there are many more clinical opportunities when arranged for individual students. My university is in a smaller city with far fewer hospitals, clinics and especially pediatric opportunities (I'm a PNP) than the larger cities can offer. If every NP student left their lives (families, jobs, etc) to move to this small college town for 2-3 years, there simply would not be enough quality clinical experiences to go around for the students. At the graduate level, and as an experienced nurse, I took responsibility for my own learning with regard to the content. There were many creative ways to experience lectures that did not require sitting in a classroom (I won't mention them all here, those of us familiar with current technology are already familiar). I must add that online courses that have rather stringent criteria for frequency and quality of postings (student interactions) can be extremely challenging and time consuming. I started my NP program at a B & M, and was put off by the poor teaching, poor student support, and students sitting in the back, unprepared and nonparticipatory. I transferred to an online program that was far more rigorous. In order to get a grade in an online program, there are standards for participating online, including references for post every post. Not AT ALL saying that online is "better" than B&M, just feeling a bit defensive at the assumption I hear all the time that online programs at the graduate level are inferior and "easy."

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I haven't taken any NP courses yet. However, I want to express my opinion as a pharmacy student.

I disagree with the proliferation of online program "only" because of the fear of potential oversupply of NPs.

It's easier to open an online program because there is no limit for physical space. Therefore, many schools can open up and "over-produce" NPs. There's only one pharmacy school in the country. I probably would have quitted pharmacy school by now if there are more openning up. Oversupply of pharmacists already exists in my city.

I do not think that in-class learning is superior to online-learning method. I missed so many classes and still doing fine in the pharmacy program. In fact, there's a girl in my class who get 4.0 in the program and only come to class during the required meetings or exam sessions. What's the point of going to class listening to lecture (besides socialization) while you can study independently at home? How many questions you can ask in the class with 40-50 students? I don't think it is more beneficial to sit in class and listen to material I could be studying at home. However, I agree that class discussion would be beneficial but most of the times we are only listening to the lecture. This is a graduate level study, and I think the student can be smart enough for independent study. Maybe I am an introvert. I learn better when I study by myself independently. Online video/audio file/chat-room can replace the benefits of the face-to-face classroom settings.

If the level of difficulty of the exams and the amount of material covered are equivalent, I think the quality of the "didactic" portions of the both online and on ground program should be at the same level. However, I am afraid that online program will make it easier for students to pass. The only problem is the clinical portion. If the online program can standardize the quality of clinical experience selected by the student, this would invalidate the argument that in-class learning is superior to online learning.

If the accrediting organization can not limit the number of new schools by limiting instructor:student ratio, then getting rid of online degree may be a good idea just to control the supply. I don't disagree with online education but I disagree with opening more NP schools.

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I think one aspect of this conversation that's being overlooked is the comparison to med school. Well, this ISN'T med school.

Along that vein: I plan to practice in a rural area where there is a great need for family clinicians, and there certainly is no medical school or nurse practitioner program in the area. There is a PA program that would be a do-able commute, but I don't want to be a PA.

My point is that making (quality) NP programs less accessible to qualified individuals would be a great detriment to patients, especially in rural areas.

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Specializes in NICU, Post-partum.

Where did you get the impression that clinical experiences is NOT required?

I have no less than 3 co-workers that are attending online NP programs, primarily because of family obligations that make it impossible to work and attend school, and the small detail we have ONE small NP program that is almost impossible to gain admission to.

These ladies all have clinicals on a weekly basis and go to a local testing center to take exams.

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I read what the OP had to say.

Two things. My program is academically rigorous. I am a little surprised at how much so to be honest. The second thing is the school is held to the same standards for accreditation that any other school is held to. I have to take the same test to become certified and I don't see where core standards differ. That pretty much covers it for me.

It's a divisive post IMHO. The OP says she wants more for nursing yet is pretty critical of the route taken to gain professional status. Conflicted I guess.

To all the rest of you going through this kind of training. Good luck to you! I hope we all are good enough at the end of the programs to do a great job with patients. :yeah:

B

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