frustrated with "online" NP schools

tracelane, DNP, NP · Mar 7, 2010

I may be wrong but haven't seen many totally online MSN/NP programs. If a program is offered online, the school still needs to require the clinical hours per the accrediting agency.

My MSN program wasn't online but I am attending a DNP program which is mostly online. We are required to have a GRE, phone interview and must arrange our own clinical hours with the approval of faculty. We also must visit campus for 4 days once a year.

I'm learning a great deal in our program. We have weekly conference calls and meet via Skype. With all the technology available, there's really no need to sit in a classroom.

T

Trauma Columnist · Mar 7, 2010

A few years ago, there was no such thing as "on line." Of course, a few years ago, we mixed our own IV solutions in glass bottles, reused glass syringes, had a life expectancy of 40 years, wore caps, stood up when doctors came into a room, smoked at the nurses station, etc..

I don't think online education degrades the profession, I think its progress. No one is going to say though that labs and clinical experiences are available online and they shouldn't be. However, some folks say that since we use "sim labs" we are getting away from the experiences of being nurses.

Progress...

llg, PhD, RN · Mar 7, 2010

I think the OP's question of standards is legitmate -- but it has little to do "online vs. brick and mortar" schools. It has to do with quality education. An online program can be of excellent quality, require an interview for admission, high test scores, etc. ... and a brick and mortar school can be of low quality. It's all a matter of how the program is run.

There has been a great proliferation of nursing programs at all levels in the last few years -- and schools have been experimenting with formats, delivery, program structures and procedures, etc. in an effort to meet the increased demand for nurses (current temporary job market aside). Unfortunately, in the rush to meet the increased demand for nurses -- and to help make programs more available for all -- some corners have been cut and some standards lowered.

I agree with the OP, that we need to pay more attention to quality than has been paid in the recent past. We need to focus a little less on "making it convenient for the students" and more on maintaining high standards. However, that is true of all types of programs and not just online.

I'm sorry that the OP is not satisfied with her online program. Perhaps she shoud switch to another school that better suits her needs and learning preferences.

I'm curious though, Betty004 ... what is it that you hate so much about your program? You say that it is "kicking your butt" implying that the work is too hard and they are expecting too much. That alone does not mean it is a bad school. In fact, it could just mean that they ARE maintaining high standards and expecting a high level of performance from the students. That would indicate a good school, not a bad one. So, what is so bad about your school? What are they doing that you see as a lowering of standards?

dqbanrn · Mar 7, 2010

Im a very internet oriented person, so having a large portion of my classes online was a big convenience for me. I advocate for this type of learning, so long as the content does not loose any quality, which is totally achievable with today's technology and computer networks.

With that said, there is point to be made about the value of brick/mortar institutions. I've noticed that every university campus ive been to has its own culture and traditions and they are firmly attached to the physical location of the school. It gives something students can identify with that is difficult to replicate with a computer screen.

Betty004 · Mar 7, 2010

Hey all,

Thanks for the comments. Yes, standards def. need to be a little higher. I just want to clarify that I don't go to an online school, but an actual B&M institution. I am more than content with the program. I just don't see how an online program could be equivalent to an actual B&M. Who are the instructors teaching the courses? ( After every quarter, we evaluate the instructors. For my clinical course, we evaluate after every session). I go to school twice a week, but one of those days consist of an 8-5 day with only an hr break. The second day ends at 12. Coming next quarter, both days will be 8-5 with only hr breaks in b/w, not to mention a day or two of clinicals. Ever since the start of this quarter, this has been the first week I have yet to be tested. Granted, papers were due instead but I will take papers over exams any day! What about pap smears? Do you trial them on patients first? We have actual pap/prostate human "models" that come in for us to learn on. These are the same models that come in to teach medical students at different universities. Sim labs are not the same. I have yet to even touch a sim man since my days as undergrad! Everyone in my program has either dropped to part time status, or quit entirely. It does sound a little absurd, but I think it trains us to be adequate and competent. I just wish this was the case across the board, then maybe NPs would have a better name, or even a name at all. NPs freakin deserve it!

I am sorry if I am coming off on the wrong foot. My program, like any, definitely has its MAJOR FLAWS. It's just that I know of a couple people who are doing online NP programs, but as staff RN they are the scariest bunch of people I've seen. Even the families they work with will refuse them as their nurse for the day, but yet these online schools has accepted them to actually diagnose and prescribe? I hope I am wrong about them, but I just wish that our profession would take a step back and be more serious just like our nation is serious with our MDs. How come we don't see med school being completed online? Do you think that will be the wave of the future as well?

Spacklehead, MSN, NP · Mar 7, 2010

I think the one thing that is nice about B&M learning is that your questions can all be answered right there on the spot, there is no waiting for an online reply/email. Also, I feel I learned a lot from listening to others' clinical experiences/case presentations and asking questions about them, which we did every class - or someone would bring up an interesting patient encounter and we could all discuss it. Yes, I guess this could be done online also if everybody agrees to go on at a certain time, but I just think it's different. I also liked having only 5 other classmates. Even though we were very different, we became very close with each other and supported each other throughout the program. I took one online course at another institution and the feel was just very different.

I don't automaticlly discount online programs for I'm sure there are some very good ones out there, but "for me" it just wouldn't be the same. I actually enjoyed going to class - it was nice to meet a couple evenings per week with people who had similar interests and common goals.

Euphrosyne7, MSN, RN · Mar 7, 2010

Hi there:

I felt that I would comment here as I currently attend the Drexel online PMH-NP program. First, in order to succeed in an online class, you must be extremely organized and motivated. There are online lectures as well as what is called Wimba sessions where everyone can interact, the instructor can put up a powerpoint and lecture while you follow along (these can be archived to view later as well), and once you download the proper software, you are able to "raise your hand", and using headphones w/speaker, ask questions, speak, etc. just as you would in a normal classroom.

Furthermore, tests are strictly proctored. They send you this device that must be hooked up to your computer, it takes your fingerprint, picture and records both sound and video in a 360 degree view while you are taking a timed test. If the proctor notices movement, noise or anything out of the ordinary, your test will be stopped, reviewed by an instructor and so there is no way to "cheat".

The classes have been very rigorous. I had started taking master degree classes at a B&M school prior to this. The online classes are as rigorous, if not more so, in some instances than the classes I took at the school.

The instructors have been great as well. They are available via pager, phone, and email and always have responded promptly to any questions or concerns.

We must make campus visits during advanced physical health assessment & diagnostics to perform a head to toe on a standardized (real, but paid actor) patient. This I will be doing in the upcoming quarter, but I hear they are quite strict with regards to pass/fail.

We are required to obtain our own clinical sites. This can be daunting but is possible. We must attend clinical for a total of 160 hrs per quarter for four quarters as well as make campus visits each clinical quarter for another standardized pt. exam.

The ability to be able to complete a large portion of the didactic component online has been great regarding flexibility, and instead of having to drive to campus once/twice a week, I just get up, turn on my computer, grab a cup of coffee, and follow along with the lecture.

Many of the textbooks we have been using are the same used by B&M facilities as well as medical schools. I certainly feel at this time that I am learning as much as I would be if I were attending a traditional program, and I have the added convenience of flexibility.

We are also required to pass each class with a B, and some B&M schools are only requiring a C (UMASS Dartmouth) so I don't know how other online schools are, but I can only speak positively about Drexel at this time.

Thanks,

Carla

Euphrosyne7, MSN, RN · Mar 7, 2010

Hi again:

I also wanted to add that we also evaluate each class at the end of the quarter. Our instructors are physicians, NP's and Doctorate prepared RNs.

Our classes (once we are done with the general requirements) are pretty small (approx. 12-16 students), and we are pretty cohesive, insofar, as at this point, it will just be this same group for the rest of the program. We also are able to discuss case studies and do pretty much anything that you can do at a B&M school....you just cannot actually see the person you are talking to until you have campus visits.

Thanks,

Carla

Spacklehead, MSN, NP · Mar 8, 2010

We are also required to pass each class with a B, and some B&M schools are only requiring a C (UMASS Dartmouth) so I don't know how other online schools are, but I can only speak positively about Drexel at this time.

I was under the assumption that most graduate programs in any major required a 3.0 (B) in order to pass (mine did), but I guess (as you posted), that isn't necessarily true.

That is a very interesting set-up your school has, and it sounds like a good program. The school that I first attended where I took the online course was nothing like that, though, unfortunately.

zenman · Mar 8, 2010

At one time I had a Walkman. Now, I have an iTouch. It's called progress. I would prefer online classes even if I lived next door to the university. There is a lot of published info about distance education from the educators of the world is you have time to look at it. One thing I noticed about distance education is that you can't sit in the back of class and hide...so to speak.

So here I sit in Bangkok, taking classes at Rush University in Chicago.... :yeah:

I think the GRE is a money-making racket. I barely passed it and went on to make a 3.97 GPA in grad school.

dqbanrn · Mar 8, 2010

I like the ability to take my classes at starbucks (or where ever). Its a good point that you cant hide at the back of the class, since internet courses tend to have minimums for logging on and participation. As far as the GRE goes, i never had to take it because my undergrad gpa was high enough. It would make more sense to have an entrance exam that is better suited to nursing skills. Perhaps an exams that measures mastery of your BSN skills since the MSN is supposed to be building on that.