I'm on my second week of orientation on a very busy Med-Surg floor. My preceptor is great, and I'm catching on to the ancient charting system and learning through a lot of "by the way" conversations.
My main concern, and what literally keeps me from sleeping, is calling the doctors during my shifts. I literally have panic attacks just thinking about it. It's not because I'm unsure of myself or I lack confidence in my assessments, it's because every doctor I've encountered at this hospital is an enormous jerk. I work the night shift, so I try to call early if a problem arises and not wait until 2am and wake them up. However, it seems like the same rotation of doctors, whom my patients have as their providers, are just plain rude on the phone.
For example, last week I called a doctor because my patient was having severe heart burn, and didn't have an order for anything to solve the problem. I called the doctor, having my ducks in a row before and knowing her vitals and assessment, and he actually "huffed" at me over the phone, shouted to make her NPO and then hung up on me. He did this again the following day for another patient when I was giving him critical lab values for a H&H. A few times my preceptor has called doctors for me, since I'm not 100% up to speed, and they've yelled at her too. I just feel like I can't win.
I'm not super thick skinned, like a lot of the nurses. While a mean doctor would never stop me from calling when it's really necessary, I just have so much anxiety and frustration surrounding it. I've yet to meet a nice doctor here, and even a urologist was on our floor throwing things around because he couldn't find something. I just don't know what to do. It's literally making me question my want to be a nurse if all I do is get yelled at by doctors. What kind of career is that? Words or wisdom... anything?
Wow! I can't believe you are willing to tolerate such behavior. I am not. Of course making allowances for the rare instance from a person having a bad day, other than that no way am I putting up with it. Neither does my employer.
J
I don't get laughed at. I get my point across and deal with rude, unprofessional behavior. No need to make a huge deal over anything. Just deal with it as it occurs, thus preventing any huge deals. I expect civil and professional behavior from everyone I work with. I don't tolerate less. In my career I have observed patients have bad outcomes because a timid nurse didn't want to face rude and condescending behavior from a physician and didn't make the call she should have. Besides life in too short to spend my working life being treated like that.
It doesn't sound like you are advocating dealing with anything.
I don't usually write people up, and never for rude behavior. I don't have to deal with rude people every shift and feel sorry for you and others who do.
I was saying that all of us need to deal with these situations, not speaking to you in particular.
My point is that you can't force people to act a certain way; the only attitude and behavior you can control is your own. So, I've always gone the route of killing with kindness and that will nearly always defuse the situation. It's what works for me, that's why I advised what I did. We will have to agree to disagree.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
My point is that you can't force people to act a certain way;
It is absolutely not true that you can not change others behavior, at least when they are at work. I have personally made dramatic changes in physician's behavior, many times.
Oh how I wish I could work on your unit for a few nights and make all the doctor calls for the whole unit! Dealing with those kinds of doctors is my specialty.
The short answer if that a) there is no excuse for them to behave that way to nurses, EVER! and b) they get away with it because the nurses and management let them.
First stop tolerating it. When a doctor speaks unprofessionally to you on the phone interrupt them in mid sentence by saying something like "you may not speak to me in such a rude and condescending manner. I am hanging up the phone now, please call me back to address the patients needs as soon as you can speak civilly" and hang up the phone. Don't worry if he is in med sentence, don't worry if he doesn't shut up so you can speak. Just keep speaking over the top of him. Get a co-worker to listed to your side of the discussion to witness that YOU were not rude or unprofessional.
I wait 10 minuets for them to call back. If no call I call their boss, the chief resident in the case of residents, the chief of the service if they are staff docs, or even the chief of staff. Trust me if those guys are getting woken up in the middle of the night because their underlings are refusing to address patient concerns things will change.
Specializes in Cardiac, ER, Pediatrics, Corrections.
I worked for a doctor who was very condescending and rude to not only staff but patients. He refused to help out and claimed "Oh well, doctors don't do that. That is a nurse's job." On my last day of my last job, I called the doctor a "lazy ***" to his face! His jaw dropped. I loved it!
I didn't mean to start an argument with my topic, but I understand where everyone is coming from on this issue. While I agree that a doctor has no right to treat me poorly simply because he has a hard job, or because I woke him up (for a good reason), hanging up on the doctor would put me in a bad situation. I'm sure my director would have words with me if I did that, and as a new nurse I never want to be placed in that situation.
My preceptor is always there when I make phone calls, and I'm nothing but professional and courteous (and especially apologetic if it's really late). Rude people are something that can't really be changed, I understand that. This is my second career, with my past life being in construction... rude people galore. While I cannot change their behavior, or report them every time they go on a tangent, I can control how I deal with it and react to it. It doesn't excuse their behavior, and in certain situations I would have no problem calling my director if I felt the doctor was completely out of control. Most of the problem doctors aren't employed by the hospital, but simply have admitting privileges, which is why they don't really have a boss I could go to if they were being a jerk.
I think this is one of those moments where I learned to suck it up. I mean, yes, I'm still scared as crap to call, but I think I just needed some encouragement that it's not just me. I'm sure all new nurses go through this moment where something scares them, and this might just be mine.
Really, I can only remember one MD that got under my skin. I had been pulled to a new medical unit - I had to call a doc right after 7am shift change because the night nurse screwed up some orders. He was notorious for chewing out nurses and being a jerk in general.
So I put on my big girl panties and make the call. Hollered all kinds of 4 letter words, and wanted to speak with that nurse. I explained she was gone - and he wanted her name and actually asked me if she had her foot up her a**
Then he asked me what I was going to do to rectify the situation and I let him know our policy.
Then he asked me if I could handle it and asked me if I had my foot up my a**. I told him "no sir but I'm here 12 hours if u would like to check"
I've been nursing since 1991 and I've never talked to any doc like that - but he came to the unit to talk to me.
He hugged me and offered me a job working in his office. :)
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
I didn't mean to start an argument with my topic, but I understand where everyone is coming from on this issue. While I agree that a doctor has no right to treat me poorly simply because he has a hard job, or because I woke him up (for a good reason),
You absolutely need to stop YOUR bad behavior. It is wrong for you to be apologetic when calling a doctor who is ON CALL.
hanging up on the doctor would put me in a bad situation. I'm sure my director would have words with me if I did that,
Oh yes, I am sure your incompetent director, while too incompetent to deal with abuse of her nurses, is ready to crack down on NURSES.
My preceptor is always there when I make phone calls, and I'm nothing but professional and courteous (and especially apologetic if it's really late).
I see you are part of the problem. Being apologetic is inappropriate behavior. Your preceptor should be educating you on this.
Rude people are something that can't really be changed,
Obviously false. I suppose you are prepared to be sexually groped at work simply because "boys will be boys and you can't change them"?
The problem you are having with your doctors is NOT normal. If doctors are my hospital can all be polite and professional on the phone so can yours.
Most of the problem doctors aren't employed by the hospital, but simply have admitting privileges, which is why they don't really have a boss I could go to if they were being a jerk.
Ah then that is even easier. In that case the patient is their boss. You can simply say "Excuse me doctor but you may not speak to me like that. I am going to hang up the phone now. You may call me back when you are prepared to act professionally. If I don't get a call back in the next ten minutes I will go and tell your patient that you don't care about their problem and refuse to address their needs."
Trust me that WILL get their attention. I have used those exact words and they are very effective at changing behavior.
Specializes in Clinical Research, Outpt Women's Health.
This is exactly the attitude that perpetuates such behavior! Rude providers has been shown to result in poorer patient outcomes. Time to put your grown up pants on and behave like a professional.
You absolutely need to stop YOUR bad behavior. It is wrong for you to be apologetic when calling a doctor who is ON CALL.
Oh yes, I am sure your incompetent director, while too incompetent to deal with abuse of her nurses, is ready to crack down on NURSES.
I see you are part of the problem. Being apologetic is inappropriate behavior. Your preceptor should be educating you on this.
Obviously false. I suppose you are prepared to be sexually groped at work simply because "boys will be boys and you can't change them"?
The problem you are having with your doctors is NOT normal. If doctors are my hospital can all be polite and professional on the phone so can yours.
Ah then that is even easier. In that case the patient is their boss. You can simply say "Excuse me doctor but you may not speak to me like that. I am going to hang up the phone now. You may call me back when you are prepared to act professionally. If I don't get a call back in the next ten minutes I will go and tell your patient that you don't care about their problem and refuse to address their needs."
Trust me that WILL get their attention. I have used those exact words and they are very effective at changing behavior.
No need to be nasty. Everyone deals with things differently, and can have good outcomes too. Not everyone needs to be as assertive as you apparently are.
No need to be nasty. Everyone deals with things differently, and can have good outcomes too. Not everyone needs to be as assertive as you apparently are.
You know, it's hard to deal with doctors like that. Just always try to take the high road, and stand up for yourself when you need to. Someday, they might have to be one of your patients! lol
I was actually at my doctor's office a few weeks ago (as a patient), and heard the P.A. yell out the door of another exam room...."NURSE! NURSE! NURSES!!!" When one came around, he yelled....."I NEED A PEN!" I was in shock. When the nurse came back in my room, I told her they should try to teach him that's unacceptable behavior for professionals. Without saying anything negative about him, and trying to maintain her own professionalism, she basically said he treats them that way all the time. Shameful.
I have done some legal consultation on cases where nurses were calling the doctor for patient problems and the result was that the patient had a bad outcome due to the lack of physician courtesy toward the nurses on the phone in the middle of the night. The nurse documented, reported the doctor's response and the doctor had to deal with the consequences. He could not blame the nurse because she (in this instance) had the correct factual encounter documented and involved her supervisor who also appropriately documented the behavioral responses of the physician.
You are there for the patient, that's all. Doctors know you are the eyes on their patients when they are not present-even though they are rude at times-they know it. You cannot solve the issue on your own. This behavior should be addressed by higher ups if it is a persistent problem. Unfortunately it is demeaning, devaluing and devastating to the patient in some instances when care is delayed and they are made to suffer unnecessarily. So my advice is to remember why you are calling, and don't take it personally. If it does become a personal attack ("you are stupid to call me about...") you should address it with the doctor with a supervisor present. NEVER alone.
gassy2be
208 Posts
My point is that you can't force people to act a certain way; the only attitude and behavior you can control is your own. So, I've always gone the route of killing with kindness and that will nearly always defuse the situation. It's what works for me, that's why I advised what I did. We will have to agree to disagree.