I live near the gulf where evacuating for hurricanes is a possibility around this time. The hospital where I work places nurses on teams. One team is forced to say, the other forced to come back 24 hrs after the hurricane is gone, and the other can come back when regular citizens come back.
My question can they legally do this? I was placed on the team that's forced to stay in the hospital with pts. They'll keep ICU, ER and MY floor open only.
There will be no extra pay, no bonus, just regular pay and time and 1/2 when you're in over time. Expected to sleep in the hospital, in semi-pvt room WITH ANOTHER CO-WORKER!
If the evacuation is mandatory how can they legally tell me to stay and WORK? Can I be fired for leaving?
Specializes in Clinical Research, Outpt Women's Health.
I am finding all of the differing viewpoints very interesting and informative. I feel really lucky.
I hadn't realized that my organization was so different than the norm. I work for a very large (faith-based) organization with facilities in many states & Mexico. Several of our facilities are in high-risk hurricane locations. The "nice" thing about hurricanes is that they usually provide plenty of warning.. We have found that 36 hours is enough time to evacuate a facility. We discharge anyone that can - then transfer patients to our other facilities, along with staff to care for them as needed. Critically ill patients are air lifted if necessary.
If a facility cannot be completely evacuated, we rely on volunteer staff to remain... no one has to stay if they don't want to. We always have plenty of volunteers, including physicians. Clinical managers are expected to be among the volunteers. There is always at least one member of the "C-level" in house, with authority to make decisions and allocate funds. We provide shelter for dependents and pets of all "stayers", including food. Stayers receive 'disaster pay'.
Since the effects of a hurricane can be long-lasting, we also provide emergency assistance for employees who have housing needs after the immediate danger is over. After Rita and Ike, this included putting people in hotels & in other employee's homes, deploying the "blue tarp" brigade to cover damaged roofs of employees, opening up the hospital laundry for employees, etc. Our payroll department also makes sure that everyone gets paid on time.. this can be a challenge if there is a long period of power outage... no ATMs, no functioning Banks, merchants only take cash. We go on-site to distribute cash to employees so that they can continue to meet their own needs.
During Ike, a relief platoon of nurses and physicians from our Mexican facilities obtained special temporary licensure permission and spent weeks providing supplemental staffing for our beleaguered facilities that were most highly impacted. One facility was on generator power for 2 months afterward.... but since it was the only hospital in the area, it had to stay open.
When a facility is damaged and can't care for patients, they don't really need any staff. So, my organization created a staffing pool & utilized them in different capacities until their place was back and open for business. Nurses ended up helping out in central supply or HIM; X-Ray techs worked alongside maintenance folks - - and they continued to receive paychecks.
BTW, my organization also fielded 3 separate groups (25 in each) of volunteer physicians and nurses for 30-day deployments to Haiti after their disaster. They all received full pay.
I didn't consider that all of this was so extraordinary, but now I am much more appreciative.
Now that is how it should be done and that is the type of employer who deserves loyalty in return.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
i find it interesting how many nurses with small children apparently have not planned for child care during an emergency. the "plan" seems to be "i'll stay home from work because *i* come first." people who have children know they have children . . . i mean no one came home and found a three year old left with a note that says "i'm yours, now you have to take care of me" did they? so why not make a plan for their safety well in advance of when it's needed. i don't think single or childless people should be having to do all the sacrificing here . . . after all we all have the same job title and the same pay scale.
i find it interesting how many nurses with small children apparently have not planned for child care during an emergency. the "plan" seems to be "i'll stay home from work because *i* come first." people who have children know they have children . . . i mean no one came home and found a three year old left with a note that says "i'm yours, now you have to take care of me" did they? so why not make a plan for their safety well in advance of when it's needed. i don't think single or childless people should be having to do all the sacrificing here . . . after all we all have the same job title and the same pay scale.
you are absolutely right. i am still a nursing student, but i have learned from this post a great deal of things i will need to plan out before i get out there in the real deal! i never even thought this was a possibility... i am in georgia, although hurricanes are not a scare here, tornados are... and of course, everyone has to be prepared for events like 9/11 and the aurora, co massacre- which i am sure is considered a mandatory stay at hospitals... right?
thank you for bringing it to my attention... i will be speaking with my family about planning for such events in the near future!
I live in Orlando where there lots of storms. In 2004 - we had 4 hurricanes in a short period of time. I worked in a nursing home. The staff was very cooperative - I stayed at the nursing home for 2 nights. But, I would definitely understand if someone had small children they had to stay home. I had a grown daughter so it was no problem for me. By the way, there were no extra beds for us. We all slept on the floor on lots of blankets.
So for those of you who believe your kids come first:
What if YOUR kid is in the hospital when the disaster/emergency/hurricane/snowmageddon/2012 hits? I assume you'll be very understanding that your child gets abandoned in the hospital without care because all those nurses abandoned their patients to care for THEIR kids?
So for those of you who believe your kids come first:
What if YOUR kid is in the hospital when the disaster/emergency/hurricane/snowmageddon/2012 hits? I assume you'll be very understanding that your child gets abandoned in the hospital without care because all those nurses abandoned their patients to care for THEIR kids?
My children absolutely are my top priority. Fortunately, since necessary emergency personnel are informed of their duties in advance (I'm from the Gulf Coast - I've never lived through a surprise hurricane), employees have the opportunity to find ways to ensure their children's safety even without their presence. If he was gone, I'm pretty sure our family members or friends would step in.
We've evacuated twice since having kids and ok pretty sure my husband could've taken my kids to safety without me. If you literally have NO ONE and your children would be left at home alone weathering a dangerous storm? Well I hope you're coworkers and higher ups are human beings and realize the place could continue to function with one less person.
It makes me a little sad to realize people would abandon ship when they're needed the most. I can't imagine where we'd be if all firefighters, EMS, police, etc said, hey, we're leaving!
I'm not a nurse yet, but I've been working in an emergency room for a while, and I've learned that even in dangerous situations sometimes you have to be willing to put yourself aside no matter how much your sense of self-preservation screams for you not to.
An example: Late last year, a bomb threat was called into the hospital. It was made to sound sincere and serious. I was working in the ER that day, and it was left to us to help protect the patients and secure the area in case a disaster did happen. It ment going through and checking rooms, securing doors, and helping get people to safe areas. The whole time I kept thinking "What am I going to do if it goes off?" "What if I end up in the bast radius?" I eventually came to realize I would be thinking the same thing if I were a patient. I would want someone to protect me, and keep me safe so that is what I tired to focus on.
In the end, it turned out to not be a actual bomb, but the experiance was scary, but at the same time kind of helped reinforce why I do my job.
I hope that my attitude isn't as cavalier as some of the posters in this thread when/if I have children. I've been working for a couple of years and my area has seen several disasters through different seasons. People don't stop getting sick because of the weather outside. It's an individual responsibility to prepare yourself and your loved ones for disaster; I shouldn't be taken advantage of during a disaster because you have children at home and were inadequately prepared to deal with disaster, and you shouldn't use your children as an excuse, either. Just because I don't have children yet doesn't mean that I don't have family that I'd love to see, or damage to my property that I'd love to get a jump start in cleaning up, when my part of the nation is involved in a disaster, either.
My father was a police officer who was forced to stay at work during the blizzards of 1993 and 1996. My pregnant mother stayed at home with my younger sister and I during both storms. She was unable to shovel heavy amounts of snow back then, not only because of her pregnancy, but also because of disability. Imagine our horror when the wind blew one of our outside doors open during one of the storms (we still don't know how), filling part of our house with a snow drift until we managed to push the door shut and barricade it. As much as my mother wanted my father home, she understood his obligation to the public... and, he understood his obligation to have an emergency plan in place for us.
I find it interesting how many nurses with small children apparently have not planned for child care during an emergency. The "plan" seems to be "I'll stay home from work because *I* come first." People who have children know they have children . . . I mean no one came home and found a three year old left with a note that says "I'm yours, now you have to take care of me" did they? So why not make a plan for their safety well in advance of when it's needed. I don't think single or childless people should be having to do all the sacrificing here . . . after all we all have the same job title and the same pay scale.
For all of you who don't have children, please respect the fact that those of us with kids are raising the next generation and we have a great deal of responsibility to our children and our patients, but our kids always come first. Of course we make accommodations for our children if there is an emergency, that is part of our job and we realize how important it is to have nurses available in emergent situations. However, this is not a basic day of calling in sick. This is a major disaster. If a hurricane came to town, and there was a major evacuation, how many people would be willing to take on the responsibility of other people's children? Not everyone has parents who are alive or even in town. Nurses should have a back-up plan, but not every plan works all the time.
Maybe the hospital the OP refers to could have had a plan A where they take volunteers to be on call like the Red Cross does and have those who do not have the resources for 24/7 emergent child care to take on other responsibilities in the event of a disaster.
Patients have to be cared for, no matter the circumstances. They are more vulnerable than us.
It's a perfectly legitimate condition of employment.
If you can't fulfill it, you most likely should look for a job outside the hospital, LTCF, et. There's absolutely nothing wrong with saying this doesn't work for me, because I have kids, aged parents, etc that I have to care for. But the people who you care for at work also are someone's parents, kids, spouses etc. A lay person can't care for ICU or ER patients. Nurses are needed.
The terms appear to the be the terms in place when the OP signed on to work. If she didn't like the terms she should have negotiated different ones, or picked a different employer. She WAS in the Gulf area when she signed on, correct? They didn't pick up the facility and move it? She is now stuck with the current terms, or leave, or expect to be possibly disciplined or terminated! It's legal! It doesn't take 2500 characters of wank to say as such, and if that's "intellectually lazy" then so be it.
I suppose in every industry in America (or Canada or anywhere else in the free world) instead of insist on proper treatment of ALL workers, everyone should just decide to accept the status quo or leave. I'm not disputing that her option may very well be "like it or leave it" as things currently stand, but that entire attitude is one that gets little accomplished, as I pointed out. The prevailing attitude of those who were using it was the "toughen up," "grow up," "get over it and deal with it" type, and THAT is what I'm referring to in terms of intellectual laziness.
As I already alluded to in my previous posts, there are industries that expect and require much of the same from their employees (I used my father as an example) but with ample reimbursement for their time, commitment and risks. Time and a half pay along with the other aforementioned conditions is atrocious and only tolerated because the employees have no power to represent themselves here. I find it disgusting that institutions use "abandonment of patients" as a shield for inexplicable treatment of nurses.
I apologize that my character count is too high for you, but issues such as this are not discussed effectively in twitter-speak or bumper sticker messages.
Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
I am finding all of the differing viewpoints very interesting and informative. I feel really lucky.
I hadn't realized that my organization was so different than the norm. I work for a very large (faith-based) organization with facilities in many states & Mexico. Several of our facilities are in high-risk hurricane locations. The "nice" thing about hurricanes is that they usually provide plenty of warning.. We have found that 36 hours is enough time to evacuate a facility. We discharge anyone that can - then transfer patients to our other facilities, along with staff to care for them as needed. Critically ill patients are air lifted if necessary.
If a facility cannot be completely evacuated, we rely on volunteer staff to remain... no one has to stay if they don't want to. We always have plenty of volunteers, including physicians. Clinical managers are expected to be among the volunteers. There is always at least one member of the "C-level" in house, with authority to make decisions and allocate funds. We provide shelter for dependents and pets of all "stayers", including food. Stayers receive 'disaster pay'.
Since the effects of a hurricane can be long-lasting, we also provide emergency assistance for employees who have housing needs after the immediate danger is over. After Rita and Ike, this included putting people in hotels & in other employee's homes, deploying the "blue tarp" brigade to cover damaged roofs of employees, opening up the hospital laundry for employees, etc. Our payroll department also makes sure that everyone gets paid on time.. this can be a challenge if there is a long period of power outage... no ARMs, no functioning Banks, merchants only take cash. We go on-site to distribute cash to employees so that they can continue to meet their own needs.
During Ike, a relief platoon of nurses and physicians from our Mexican facilities obtained special temporary licensure permission and spent weeks providing supplemental staffing for our beleaguered facilities that were most highly impacted. One facility was on generator power for 2 months afterward.... but since it was the only hospital in the area, it had to stay open.
When a facility is damaged and can't care for patients, they don't really need any staff. So, my organization created a staffing pool & utilized them in different capacities until their place was back and open for business. Nurses ended up helping out in central supply or HIM; X-Ray techs worked alongside maintenance folks - - and they continued to receive paychecks.
BTW, my organization also fielded 3 separate groups (25 in each) of volunteer physicians and nurses for 30-day deployments to Haiti after their disaster. They all received full pay.
I didn't consider that all of this was so extraordinary, but now I am much more appreciative.
CrunchRN, ADN, RN
4,558 Posts
Now that is how it should be done and that is the type of employer who deserves loyalty in return.